# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1081 "2010-01-08T02:00:54Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Tom** - Why did you unvote Freudian when she claimed, what were you thinking? As has been amply documented by now, I was already pretty ambivalent about whether **Freudian** was scum or a testy Townie playing a bad game. In retrospect, the “intentionally scummy” thing should have set off alarm bells. But mainly I was thinking (a) don’t lynch the Doc and (b) if somehow she isn’t night-killed over the next couple nights, time to revisit (a). (I argued with Diver that we shouldn’t automatically lynch her the next day because if she WAS the doc, I didn’t want to give the scum an automatic policy lynch. The way things played out, if she’d claimed self-protection the next day (and USC hadn’t counterclaimed) I would have been perfectly ready to lynch her, but then I’d say that wouldn’t I?) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1082 "2010-01-08T02:04:51Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > If one or the other of **Story** or **Tom** is Scum, I doubt the other is. I actually think **Story** is quite unlikely to be scum simply because he’d know that I will flip Town, and wouldn’t have gone quite so all-in on getting me lynched. As I noted earlier, yes this is a “scum wouldn’t do that” argument, and **Story** is good enough to get away with something like this, but I don’t really see it. (If I were scum, it could potentially be an awesome bussing. But I’m not scum.) I did make a terrible vote-switch on **Freudian** -\> **Diggit** , and it’s reasonable that a Townie would pick up on that and go after me, sadly. Not sure what to do about it, though honestly the way my brain is (not) working these days I won’t be much of a loss for Town if I am lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1083 "2010-01-08T04:56:43Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **Story** is terrifying to have alive this late in the game because of how persuasive he becomes as time goes on. If he’s Scum, he’s like the fucking Pied Piper. If he’s Town and he’s wrong, even worse. And the fact that he’s still alive makes me wonder, you know? Every time I’ve been Scum and he’s been Town, he was one of the first ones nightkilled, and that pattern has played out in a few other games I wasn’t Scum in (or wasn’t in at all) as well. This is a huge smudge. Scum will definitely leave story alive since he is “so good” that he needs to be killed off early. For proof see the Space Hijack game that recently ended on idle’s board. I believe it was peeker who was scum in that game, who made a similar argument against story. Although he was a little bit more blunt. This sort of argument comes off as just being innocuous commentary, but I don’t trust it or the motivations that might be behind it. Why would scum bother to kill story off when paranoid town players will do it with a little gentle prodding. This argument, combined with a distinct lack of scum hunting today, directed suspicion or vote yesterday, is why I’m switching my vote to you. **unvote Meeko** **vote Drain Bead** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1084 "2010-01-08T05:09:11Z")
**Vote Count** with about 1 days, 20 hours, and 51 minutes to go (peak vote in parentheses) It takes 8 votes to start a 12-18 hour countdown. **2 Votes** \ ***Tom Scud** (2 #1054) storyteller0910 (1025), Mental Guy (1054) **1 Vote** **storyteller0910** (3 #1031) GuiriEnEspaña (1024 1043), Tom Scud(1028 1039), Meeko (1031) **Meeko** (2 #1036) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1022), Red Skeezix (1036 1083) **Nanook of the North Shore** (1 #1029) Alka Seltzer (1029) **MHaye** (1 #1046) peekercpa (1046) **Drain Bead** (1 #1083) Red Skeezix (1083) **0 Votes** **peekercpa** **Alka Seltzer** **Red Skeezix** **GuiriEnEspaña** **Mental Guy** **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** \*Lynch Leader **Not voting:** Nanook of the North Shore, Drain Bead, MHaye, Tom Scud, GuiriEnEspaña ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1085 "2010-01-08T12:49:12Z")
Can we all just take a break for a moment and recognize the incontrovertible fact that someone needs to add the phrase “pulling a Freudian” to the Mafia Wiki? Anyway… > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I don’t like Storyteller’s argument that the votes for Freudian were ‘terrible’. Freudian gave us little real content to analyse, and was consistently anti-town in her play. It’s natural to think that anti-town play may have a scum motive, and eventually you have to lynch anti-town players as they are a huge distraction. Story does have a point that scum may have trouble being objective about the cases they make, but scum can easily manufacture good reasons to vote each other. The above is exactly my point, and exactly why we shouldn’t be giving people a pass on bad votes for **Freudian** just because the outcome was beneficial. Many of the votes were presented with minimal or specious reasoning, and I strongly suspect (in light of Freudian’s revealed alignment) that at least one and possibly more of these underdeveloped votes reflects Scum that didn’t put much thought into the case because they already knew they were right. > [@](#): > > I’m somewhat suspicious of Story because he found a solid reason to vote Freudian (that Zeriel may have been killed because he dropped a cop tell, which implies that Freudian was scum) yet did not do so. That is not a “solid reason.” That was me, spitballing. It falls so far short of what I’d consider a reasonable burden of evidence for a Day Three votes it’s not even in shouting distance. > [@](#): > > **@Storyteller** – I found #765 an odd post, what exactly did you mean by this (bolded)? Well, you cut out the context, but including the context I’m not sure what there is to explain. **Guiri** asked me why I was assuming that the Scum blocked **peeker** Night One even though peeker hadn’t outright stated it yet, and I said that I was assuming it because it would have been stupid for them to do otherwise, and it’s a bad idea to think the Scum are going to turn out to be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1086 "2010-01-08T13:11:41Z")
The annoying thing about **Nanook** is that he’s been active on this board on multiple occasions (including yesterday and today) but hasn’t bothered posting here. Even a quick “Sorry guys, no time to play and too late to get subbed out, I’m VT” would be useful to us. It’s funny that his last post included this: > [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > On multiple occasions in the past I’ve seen scum drop off the radar after picking up heat early and then never be suspected again. It’s not an unusual tactic for them to use. Now, I’m not sure that a mass claim is a good idea if the sole intention is to possibly determine whether **Nanook** has a role or not. Scum will benefit from the claim by identifying the 2 remaining Town power roles but what other pro-town aspects am I missing? Possible false claims or counter-claims? And I’m sorry to be picking at single posts but **MHaye** I really don’t understand your response to **Cookies** ’s question: _To those of you who are not willing to lynch him now, can you justify (or re-justify) why?_ > [@MHaye](#): > > Fundamentally, because there are three scum running around, and two of them are participating. Are you confirming that **Nanook** is the third scum but we should focus our efforts on identifying the other 2 scum (who are actively participating in the thread) first? Or is this intended as a conditional - even if **Nanook** were scum, there are 2 others to be caught first? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1087 "2010-01-08T13:21:55Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Are you confirming that **Nanook** is the third scum but we should focus our efforts on identifying the other 2 scum (who are actively participating in the thread) first? Or is this intended as a conditional - even if **Nanook** were scum, there are 2 others to be caught first? The latter. If we assume, for the sake of argument, that Nanook is scum, he’s not doing us harm right now. The _active_ scum are. Also, the active scum are making posts that might give us a chance to track them down. And if Nanook is not scum, then we’ll be giving the scum a tempo by killing one of our own. I don’t know if Nanook is scum or not - I’ve already claimed my role back at the end of Day 3 when it looked likely I’d be lynched. (To save people searching, I’m Vanilla Town, and have no special knowledge.) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1088 "2010-01-08T14:02:39Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > The latter. > > If we assume, for the sake of argument, that Nanook is scum, he’s not doing us harm right now. The _active_ scum are. Also, the active scum are making posts that might give us a chance to track them down. And if Nanook is not scum, then we’ll be giving the scum a tempo by killing one of our own. > > I don’t know if Nanook is scum or not - I’ve already claimed my role back at the end of Day 3 when it looked likely I’d be lynched. (To save people searching, I’m Vanilla Town, and have no special knowledge.) i’d respectfully disagree. to the extent that an active **nook** might be sowing further confusion sure that helps. but the absolute lack of participation and voting gives no data either way. now i am not suggesting that we should ltl at this point (surprise surprise) but i do believe that his lack of participation is a net harm to the town effort regardless of alignment. and this is not a smudge in any way because i’ve already made it clear via posts and now a vote. vt is exactly what the gf will claim because that’s what they show up if investigated. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1089 "2010-01-08T14:06:11Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > This is a huge smudge. Scum will definitely leave story alive since he is “so good” that he needs to be killed off early. For proof see the Space Hijack game that recently ended on idle’s board. I believe it was peeker who was scum in that game, who made a similar argument against story. Although he was a little bit more blunt. > > This sort of argument comes off as just being innocuous commentary, but I don’t trust it or the motivations that might be behind it. Why would scum bother to kill story off when paranoid town players will do it with a little gentle prodding. > > This argument, combined with a distinct lack of scum hunting today, directed suspicion or vote yesterday, is why I’m switching my vote to you. I’ve been busy, sorry. I’m reading but don’t really have as much time to post as I’d like. And speaking of smudges, yesterDay I voted for **Freudian** , just as I’ve been doing for almost the whole game. It’s only the Day that she made the late claim and I unvoted her and didn’t revote anyone else that I ended the Day with no vote. As for **story** , another thing I neglected to mention in my drive-by post is that, unless I’ve missed something, he said that **Tom** ’s response is not what he’d have expected from Scum, but yet he’s still voting for him. I’m somewhat curious about that, actually. Can you expand on why you’re still voting for him after that exchange? I’m still trying to make a decision on who to vote for, but I’ll do it in the next 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1090 "2010-01-08T14:47:28Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > And speaking of smudges, yesterDay I voted for **Freudian** , just as I’ve been doing for almost the whole game. It’s only the Day that she made the late claim and I unvoted her and didn’t revote anyone else that I ended the Day with no vote. :smack: Sorry my bad. Still don’t like your smudging post. Vote stays. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1091 "2010-01-09T03:47:45Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > vt is exactly what the gf will claim because that’s what they show up if investigated. [QUOTE=Post 67] Alpha Scum: Win Condition: You win when the number of living Scum players is equal to or greater than the number of living players and the SK is dead. Power: Your power is passive. **If investigated by the Town Cop, you will be revealed as being Town.** Your power cannot be blocked by a roleblocker. If selected by the Scum, you may perform the Scum Night Kill that Night. Scum Communication: Each Night, you may discuss the game with the other Scum players at XXXXXXXXXXXX. Please register for the site. The password is zzzzzzzz. The other Scum are YYYYYYYYYYYY [/QUOTE] Nitpick: Not that I disagree that a gf will likely claim vt, but according to the rules, the investigator won’t get role info other than align on a gf. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1092 "2010-01-09T16:30:06Z")
So I started thinking I needed to skim through the thread again, because I wanted to evaluate votes from Day One especially. I thought maybe examining those who were on **Freudian** early in Day One might be less likely to be Scum, because the Scum didn’t know what roles the other Scum had, and they could be bussing the Blocker or Alpha. Here’s the vote count directly prior to **peeker** ’s counterclaim, when **Freudian** was in the lead: > [@](#): > > 4 Votes > \*Freduian Slit (3 #378) Zeriel (230), Drain Bead (298), Red Skeezix (378), USCDiver (386) We already know the alignment of two of these. I know I’m Town. I’d imagine **Red Skeezix** is too, especially since his vote on Day Two put **Freudian** in the (admittedly early) lead again. Right after that, **story** put a 2nd vote on the absent **Rin Twisted** , adding onto **Tom** ’s. At that point it was a tied vote, with **Freudian** owning the tiebreaker. I put the third vote on **Freudian**. Tom unvotes **Rin** and votes **Freudian** , giving her 4 votes–the next nearest vote getter has 1, thanks to his unvote. Of course, later on he sort of [defends **Freudian**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11886751&postcount=563). **Guiri** , **USCDiver** and **MentalGuy** pile on. At this point, **Freudian** is leading 7-2. The first vote away from **Freudian** is **Red Skeezix** , who I earlier said I believe to be Town. He votes for **Diggit** , in a pretty long post. **Diggit** did not have any votes at that point. **Freudian** is still leading 6-1. **Tom Scud** adds a FOS, but is unwilling to unvote **Freudian** at that point. **Meeko** subs in for **Rin**. **peeker** adds the 2nd vote on **diggit**. **mHaye** votes for the first time, on **Diggit** , who now has 3 to **Freudian** ’s 6. This is where I expect Scum who are voting for **Freudian** to start jumping off. The next **Diggit** vote is Tom’s one away from **Freudian** , making it 5-4. **Freudian** places her self-preservation vote, making it a tie. **Cookies** breaks the tie in **Diggit** ’s favor. **Mental Guy** unvotes **Freudian** for **Diggit** as well. **Diggit** claims. **Alka Seltzer** adds a vote for **Diggit**. Day ends with **Diggit** ’s death. Day Three. I vote **Freudian** again. **Tom** gets a couple of votes, then **MentalGuy** votes **Freudian**. **Cookies** votes **Freudian** , giving her the lead again. Then she unvotes, and doesn’t revote anyone at the time. **Alka** votes **Freudian**. **Red Skeezix** and **Freudian** vote **MHaye** , the latter over a “slip.” **Mahaloth** jumps on, so does **Meeko**. **Tom** votes **Freudian** again. So does **USCDiver**. **MHaye** still has the lead, but they’re tied at 5 votes. **Guiri** breaks the tie by voting **Freudian** (a point in Town favor, there). At this point, **Freudian** makes her fake claim. **Tom** is the first to unvote. Unlike **story** , I consider this a null tell, even though it restored **MHaye** to the lead–the unvote is the good play for both Town and Scum, I think. **Guiri** is the next unvote. Everyone starts swinging to **Mahaloth** at that point, and the Day ends with his death. Okay. So that’s where I’ve stopped. So, what do I learn from this? I learn that my top 3 suspects ( **Tom** , **Story** , and **Meeko** ) didn’t come out smelling like roses from the unvote shifts (well, **story** by being one of the few players to attack the various votes for **Freudian** ). **Red** and **Guiri** look like Town. **Cookies** looks somewhat scummy as well, along with **MentalGuy**. In the end, though, I think I’ll… **vote Tom Scud** …because in almost all of the instances of voting for **Freudian** , he tacked on votes when it seemed that she was leading, and then removed them when the tide was shifting. I can’t really count the unvote after the claim, but it seems like **Tom** ’s only votes for **Freudian** were “safe” votes, and the unvotes were critical. And that beats out **story** ’s insistence on _not_ voting **Freudian** , and **Meeko** ’s piling on to convenient non- **Freudian** bandwagons. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1093 "2010-01-09T16:35:47Z")
that was a wee nitpicky **skeezy** but yeh. also, it appears that we are heading towards a close finish. someone will get lynched by a neck. so it could swing either way by some of our non voters at this point. i’d like to use this as further condemnation of **mhaye** but to be totally fair it’s how he always plays so nada there. **alka** ltl one offer on **nook** looks odd but shoot it’s something i would contemplate. one thing that was weird about last Night’s kill is that it feels funky. i mean **usc** was obviously going to be protecting me or himself. and i thought i was making it clear that i would be gunning for **skeez** or **mhaye**. why wouldn’t scum have blocked **usc** and killed me if they had a concern that i was going to target a scummer? wifom i know but still it makes me ponder. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1094 "2010-01-09T16:41:42Z")
and cross posts rock. i was thinking a little bit differently but yeh, what you said kind of **db**. **unvote** \*\* vote tom\*\* i can’t see **tom** and **story** being on the same team unless they are both scum. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1095 "2010-01-09T16:44:57Z")
Funny, because I said earlier that I _don’t_ think they’re both Scum. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1096 "2010-01-09T17:02:03Z")
I’m willing to switch from Meeko to Tom, but I do think Meeko needs a good long look. **Unvote Meeko** Vote Tom\*\* I know we don’t have any other data to really leverage against, but my “scummy” behavior with respect to Freudian is only circumstantial and misleading in hindsight (not that my behavior is purposefully misleading, but the conclusions that might be made from it), and while at this point I’m leaning towards story being town and in a similar situation as me, I also know that a good scum player can plead his/her case better than I have pleaded mine. A mass claim should be coming soon, and/or the dick whipping it out, both of which should pump some much-needed information into this game. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1097 "2010-01-09T17:05:14Z")
Oh well. I’m going to die. **vote MentalGuy** ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1098 "2010-01-09T17:28:32Z")
**Unvote Nanook** On Nanook, it seems that if he is scum he probably won’t have been performaing any night actions. We know that Peeker was blocked night 4, so Nanook probably isn’t the scum blocker (it’s unlikely the town blocker would block Peeker). I’m assuming Nanook wouldn’t stay active on the scum boards while not posting anything here. If he is a town power role we have to assume he hasn’t been submitting any actions. If we lynch scum toDay, we can hold off a bit longer on dealing with the Nanook problem. If we mis-lynch, I think we should mass claim toMorrow. A major advantage of this setup is that the 4 town roles are self confirming in the absence of a counter-claim. Nanook’s inactivity screws that up. We can’t wait until lylo for a mass claim, as if Nanook is a town power role that opens the door for a scum fake claim. If Nanook is the cop he won’t be able to lead a claim. If he is town the only way to avoid a Nanook mis-lynch is if we claim and find a town power role is missing, and we are running short on mis-lynches. I don’t really like this argument, but I tend to think that if Tom was scum he could have avoided being so exposed by the Freudian flip without that much effort. If MHaye turns out to be a scum power role the late switch of votes to Mahaloth is very suspicious. If he is town, the late votes (after MHaye’s claim) might have been fishing for another claim. **@Story** - You’ve said a lot about the terrible votes for Freudian, but what do you think about the votes for Mahaloth? **Vote Guiri** I’ve already flagged up a possible slip on Guiri’s part where he seemed to know my alignment, but it’s his reaction to Freudian’s claim that I find the most suspicious. #878 in particular is really odd. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Thanks, that makes things a little clearer - you mischaracterized your experience. > Reviewing your posts, looking for breadcrumbs, I noticed these: > > Before you received your role PM you asked twice about the Doc and self-protection. What a coincidence that you just happened to be assigned that role!!! > > When **Pedescribe** claimed vig, you said this (snipped): > > Is this one of the few times they’re telling the truth? > > And this one: > > So should I revote you? > > I don’t mean to attack you but I’m seriously doubting your claim based on your gameplay and posts. I really don’t want to lynch you if you’re the Doc. But if you’re lying, I don’t want the real Doc to counterclaim… I would like to see what the rest of Town says - even if that means I’m acting cowardly. It seems to me that Guiri wants it both ways here. He wants cred for doubting the claim, but he doesn’t want to vote Freudian because that would defeat the purpose of it for scum, to out the real doctor. Somehow Freudian’s lie about never previously playing a power role becomes “you mischaracterized your experience” when Guiri challenges her on this. If Guiri doesn’t want the real doc to claim as he says here, the only way to prevent it is to follow up his convictions with a vote. It’s also odd that Guiri is looking for doctor breadcrumbs when Freudian had already said she hadn’t dropped any. Looking at the rest of Guiri’s play, his attack on Story stands out as being unusually aggressive. If Story is town, a scum Guiri might have thought it was a good opportunity to attack him. Sorry about the late vote. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1099 "2010-01-09T17:37:22Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > \*\*[COLOR=“Red”] I’m assuming Nanook wouldn’t stay active on the scum boards while not posting anything here. Why? There was a point in time where I would have assumed that he would not be active on these boards without at least putting a post in the game, but that assumption has already been proven false. > [@](#): > > If he is a town power role we have to assume he hasn’t been submitting any actions. Again, why? There is still a chance, albeit slim and growing slimmer with each passing moment, that he is a town role with intel and any minute now he’ll actually show up and share it. > [@](#): > > I don’t really like this argument, but I tend to think that if Tom was scum he could have avoided being so exposed by the Freudian flip without that much effort. “Scum would never do that”, and a not very compelling version, imho. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1100 "2010-01-09T18:07:24Z")
Alka, what do you think of the fact that **Guiri** placed the vote that caused **Freudian** to have to fake-claim? Do you think it was a scum setup, and if so, for what reason? At the time, it looked like **Freudian** might live to see another Day without having to expose herself, were it not for that one vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=56)