# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1101 "2010-01-09T18:26:07Z")
So right, as a soon-to-be-dead Townie I guess I should make my apologies for my shitty play - the last couple days at least I’ve been writing 2k words a day of stuff that requires close reading and sorting out of ambiguities, so the last fucking thing I wanted to do was play Mafia in my free time. I think Story is town, for reasons I mentioned before. I think **Guiri** is Town as well, though I can’t point out specific reasons; I’ll leave it out there as my soon-to-be-proven honest impression. And I think **Drain** is scum, because of this vote reason: > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > …because in almost all of the instances of voting for **Freudian** , he tacked on votes when it seemed that she was leading, and then removed them when the tide was shifting. I can’t really count the unvote after the claim, but it seems like **Tom** ’s only votes for **Freudian** were “safe” votes, and the unvotes were critical. And that beats out **story** ’s insistence on _not_ voting **Freudian** , and **Meeko** ’s piling on to convenient non- **Freudian** bandwagons. This right after she notes that I tossed the vote on **Freudian** that shifted her within one of the lead on Day 3. I mean, you could fairly characterize that as my deciding to bus her as a lost cause in an effort to restore my Townie cred. But it wasn’t a “safe” vote - there was some momentum building towards her, but my vote definitely added to it. I’m not crazy about **Mental’s** “gosh, Tom was acting all helpful and Townie in the first turn and trying to clarify the rules/setup - he must be Scum!” argument, but Drain’s argument is worse: **unvote Mental** **vote Drain** Oh, and can I have it read into the record that I am claiming Vanilla Town, that I am an obvious easy vote for scum, and that Town should look at my bandwagon carefully? And that it will be nice to have **Story** playing for my team again? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1102 "2010-01-09T18:30:39Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > That is not a “solid reason.” That was me, spitballing. It falls so far short of what I’d consider a reasonable burden of evidence for a Day Three votes it’s not even in shouting distance. Seems like you are wriggling a bit there. Your suspicion of Freudian should have been equal to your suspicion that Zeriel was killed for dropping a cop tell. (If that was the reason Zeriel was killed, it must have meant that Freudian was scum). > [@storyteller0910](#): > > Well, you cut out the context, but including the context I’m not sure what there is to explain. **Guiri** asked me why I was assuming that the Scum blocked **peeker** Night One even though peeker hadn’t outright stated it yet, and I said that I was assuming it because it would have been stupid for them to do otherwise, and it’s a bad idea to think the Scum are going to turn out to be stupid. Fair enough, I was misreading that exchange. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Oh well. I’m going to die. > > **vote MentalGuy** If you are town, do you have any reasoning at all to back this up? I can’t take this vote seriously as it stands. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Why? There was a point in time where I would have assumed that he would not be active on these boards without at least putting a post in the game, but that assumption has already been proven false. I don’t know for sure, but it would be anti-game of him to continue on the scum board while not posting here. He has logged in 2 or 3 times but hasn’t posted anywhere else. My vote got no reaction, so he probably isn’t reading the game. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > “Scum would never do that”, and a not very compelling version, imho. Like I said earlier, I think scum would know Freudian was unlikely to make it to the endgame, and should have been planning for a flip. On preview, I’m not sure Drain, I’ll go and take another look. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1103 "2010-01-09T18:34:42Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I’m not crazy about **Mental’s** “gosh, Tom was acting all helpful and Townie in the first turn and trying to clarify the rules/setup - he must be Scum!” argument… Was this the only reason for that vote? I had the same thought when re-reading the game. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1104 "2010-01-09T18:44:19Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Alka, what do you think of the fact that **Guiri** placed the vote that caused **Freudian** to have to fake-claim? Do you think it was a scum setup, and if so, for what reason? At the time, it looked like **Freudian** might live to see another Day without having to expose herself, were it not for that one vote. Suspicious if MHaye turns out to be a scum power role, otherwise I don’t think it’s a strong indicator (the Freudian bandwagon had just picked up steam again, so a scum Guiri might have wanted to be on it). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1105 "2010-01-09T18:44:21Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Was this the only reason for that vote? I had the same thought when re-reading the game. Vaguely, and here I’m being a lazy fuck because I’m going to die anyway, I remember **Mental** having a similar profile to mine in terms of the voting/unvoting/revoting of **Freudian**. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1106 "2010-01-09T19:15:07Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Was this the only reason for that vote? I had the same thought when re-reading the game. It may have been the only reason I explicitly spelled out, but I did say it was also because of his voting pattern on Freudian in addition to it (essentially, I said I was buying in to story’s argument). His “helpful” behavior on Day 1 probably would not even have been noticed by me if it hadn’t been for his subsequent voting pattern with Freudian. I also realize that my voting pattern is similar to his, but there is not much I can do about that. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1107 "2010-01-09T19:26:21Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I’m categorically not “pulling a Freudian”, Alka, and if you think missing one line of clarification in half of a page worth of posts is equivalent to the amount of skimming she was caught doing most of the time she was alive, you’re judgment is highly questionable, at least with respect to me. And this part of this post makes you look even more like Freudian, but I have a data point with you that I did not have with Freudian. You acted similarly in the Princess Bride game after you voted after the deadline and got called on it, you were Town then, so this behavior from you doesn’t ping me as much as from someone else. Also, you said in another post that I smudged you, but what I did was declare my (mild) suspicion of you based on your early gameplay. That is not a smudge, it is a simple declaration of my state of mind. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1108 "2010-01-09T19:38:17Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > This is a huge smudge. Scum will definitely leave story alive since he is “so good” that he needs to be killed off early. For proof see the Space Hijack game that recently ended on idle’s board. I believe it was peeker who was scum in that game, who made a similar argument against story. Although he was a little bit more blunt. > > This sort of argument comes off as just being innocuous commentary, but I don’t trust it or the motivations that might be behind it. Why would scum bother to kill story off when paranoid town players will do it with a little gentle prodding. > > This argument, combined with a distinct lack of scum hunting today, directed suspicion or vote yesterday, is why I’m switching my vote to you. Not that I disagree with the possibility this could be scum motivated, but I made a similar observation. Granted, I didn’t try to imply that we needed to get rid of story just because he is alive, but I did mention his living this long is automatically suspicious. Why did you not comment on my post? Was is just the force of the argument or something else? ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1109 "2010-01-09T19:45:10Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I’m not crazy about **Mental’s** “gosh, Tom was acting all helpful and Townie in the first turn and trying to clarify the rules/setup - he must be Scum!” argument, but Drain’s argument is worse: It wasn’t just that you were acting helpful, it was that you were specifically trying to make sure Freudian was on the right track. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1110 "2010-01-09T19:58:49Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > It wasn’t just that you were acting helpful, it was that you were specifically trying to make sure Freudian was on the right track. Which posts in particular please MentalGuy? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1111 "2010-01-09T20:33:07Z")
**Vote Count** with about 5 hours, and 27 minutes to go (peak vote in parentheses) **5 Votes** \ ***Tom Scud** (5 #1096) storyteller0910 (1025), Mental Guy (1054), Drain Bead (1092), peekercpa (1094), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1096) **2 Votes** **Drain Bead** (2 #1101) Red Skeezix (1083), Tom Scud (1101) **1 Vote** **storyteller0910** (3 #1031) GuiriEnEspaña (1024 1043), Tom Scud(1028 1039), Meeko (1031) **GuiriEnEspaña** (1 #1098) Alka Seltzer (1098) **0 Votes** **Meeko** (2 #1036) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1022 1096), Red Skeezix (1036 1083) **MHaye** (1 #1046) peekercpa (1046 1094) **Nanook of the North Shore** (1 #1029) Alka Seltzer (1029 1098) **Mental Guy** (1 #1097) Tom Scud (1097 1101) **peekercpa** **Alka Seltzer** **Red Skeezix** **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** \*Lynch Leader **Not voting:** Nanook of the North Shore, MHaye, GuiriEnEspaña ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1112 "2010-01-09T20:44:46Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I mean, you could fairly characterize that as my deciding to bus her as a lost cause in an effort to restore my Townie cred. But it wasn’t a “safe” vote - there was some momentum building towards her, but my vote definitely added to it. While the voting record is the major reason why I’m voting for you, the post I linked to in my vote post is icing. You voted for **Freudian** , while still coming up with plausible points in favor of her being Town. It just seems like talking out of both sides of your mouth. Combine that with your being instrumental in saving her multiple times, and I just can’t see you being Town. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1113 "2010-01-09T20:51:06Z")
game state as i see it. our dick hasn’t said squat. that means one of two things. they got nada (fuck) or they are not participatory (i will never talk to **coca cola** again). one of **story** or **tom** is scum. or they both are (moist likely). and **mhaye** is the clean up hitter. i understand the reticence to get a vote down until a wee bit later. but, sheesh **mhaye** it’s nut cutting time. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1114 "2010-01-09T21:08:57Z")
I’m the cop. I wanted to wait till tomorrow to claim as I hoped I’d get one more result but as it is I think it’s in Town’s interest for me to claim now. At least to avoid the lynch of a possible townie as one more result will leave us in the same situation, specially as I’ll probably not be around tomorrow… This is my first ever power role and the mods kindly referred me to a couple of past games where the cop’s role and strategies were commented. I’ve also read the various wikis for reference but apart from this I’ve had no guidance or support so I may not have played optimally… My plan from Day 1 was to build up a pool of possible townies - people who I felt could make it to end game. I made my choices based both on events in the game and previous knowledge of players from Screamers. I only have 3 useful results as my first investigated player was NK-ed: Day 1: **USC** - Town Day 2: **Tom** - Town Day 3: **MHaye** - Town (chosen after the vote swing from **FS** to him and finally to **Maha** ) Day 4: **Alka** - Town 3 possible townies + me + **Peeker** leaves 7 players in which to find the scum roleblocker and goon: Nanook Drain Story Red Meeko Mental Cookies Any of the 10 remaining players could be the godfather… I don’t see the value in a mass claim if the only pro-town benefit is to possible identify **Nanook** as the town RB. **Vote Nanook** ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1115 "2010-01-09T21:21:12Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > No one but Meeko is currently holding on to the case against story, but I think there could possibly be some validity to it. He didn’t give an all out defense of Freudian, but by condemning many of the votes as “bad votes” he essentially accomplishes the same thing. And while he is correct that he did not misrepresent the actual vote posts from the players, I think it was fairly obvious that some of them needed to be considered in the context of what they had said before. Also, story is one of those players that is automatically suspicious simply by surviving to Day 5. Scum do not usually see the need to get rid of a player like me, but they do story. Mitigating that some this time is the fact that he has not been around as much, so the scum may not have seen him as much of a threat. All that being said, while I can understand the suspicion on story, he only ranks about third or fourth in suspicion to me. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > If one or the other of **Story** or **Tom** is Scum, I doubt the other is. That fight seemed authentic. I was leaning toward **Story** when the Day started (I tend on the side of **Meeko** in their argument, actually, but damned if **Story** doesn’t always make me feel like anyone he’s arguing with is Scum), but he made good points against **Tom**. **Story** is terrifying to have alive this late in the game because of how persuasive he becomes as time goes on. If he’s Scum, he’s like the fucking Pied Piper. If he’s Town and he’s wrong, even worse. And the fact that he’s still alive makes me wonder, you know? Every time I’ve been Scum and he’s been Town, he was one of the first ones nightkilled, and that pattern has played out in a few other games I wasn’t Scum in (or wasn’t in at all) as well. > [@MentalGuy](#): > > Why did you not comment on my post? Was is just the force of the argument or something else? The main difference as I see it is that your post reads like this: “Meeko is suspicious of story, story is a strong player, small suspicions on story are heightened due to his skill at the game”. Drain’s post reads like this: “Either story or tom scud is scum, I think it is story because he is a better player and if he is not scum then he would be dead by now.” It’s not really different from yours with the exception that it also contains some real smears, like vote for story or he’ll lead you to your doom “Pied Piper”; vote for him because he’s “Terrifying”; vote for him even if you think he is town: “If he’s Town and he’s wrong, even worse”. The main thing here that I’m seeing is that it is a huge suspicion that hangs on a coincidence of him still being in the game. I think both arguments are bunk (yours and hers), since this is an open game and it seems (to me anyways) more likely that scum are looking for signs and portents of the known power roles than worrying about who’s the best player. I didn’t comment on yours since it didn’t read so much as an indictment of story, but an attempt to understand Meeko’s vote. Feel free to correct me if I got a mistaken impression. Note: this does not mean that I do not suspect story of being scum, he’s about in the middle for me right now. On Preview: In light of Guiri’s claim: I am reconsidering my vote. I may switch to Nanook. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1116 "2010-01-09T21:26:35Z")
Can’t see a motive for Guiri claiming now if he isn’t the cop. I don’t think Tom is the godfather, not sure about MHaye. **Unvote Guiri** **Vote Storyteller** I may switch to Nanook if that is required to prevent a Tom lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1117 "2010-01-09T21:27:47Z")
**Unvote Guiri** **Vote Storyteller** ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1118 "2010-01-09T21:29:21Z")
**@Guiri** - Did you drop any breadcrumbs for your investigations? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1119 "2010-01-09T21:40:08Z")
that’s enough for me. **unvote** **vote mhaye** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1120 "2010-01-09T21:45:42Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Guiri** - Did you drop any breadcrumbs for your investigations? sorry but **alka** one of the lamest questions that i tend to see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=57)