# Colorless Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729 "2009-12-02T18:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1181 "2010-01-12T15:00:28Z")
One last point: I know I specified who I was most suspicious of at the head of the day. Since my track record has been poor for this game (RIP Diggit & Mahaloth), I would hope that my fellow townsfolk are considering other cases as well, I know that I am rereading in the case that I am just way off. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1182 "2010-01-12T15:25:48Z")
Interesting. First off, **peeker** , wtf were you thinking? You could at least have taken a shot at storyteller (who I don’t think is scum but you were arguing that way) or skeezix and we’d have a pool of 4 town-or-alpha and 5 possible scum even if you hit Town; now we’re looking at a 2+ in 7 shot instead of a 2+ in 5. On **Alka’s** block math: Taking it from the top, the percentage play for scum on the night after **Freudian** claimed would have been to go kill someone random and block **peeker** , then have **Freudian** claim self-protection and argue that the scum were trying to set her up; **Freudian** stuck with that cover story even though it made no sense in the event. If the scum were going to try and kill peeker, I would have expected them to have come up with a cover story for **Freudian** that explained a no-kill, if only “I protected peeker”. (on preview, I can sorta see **skeez** ’s “ **Nanook** must be Doc” argument, but it doesn’t seem solid - there are after all other reasons the Doc might be reluctant to claim, and it seems weird that scum would count on this). The percentage play last night would have been to block **peeker** and kill **Guiri** , since dead men tell no tales. How were they to know **peeker** was going to play for their side? They might have been counting on **Peeker** to go after **MHaye** , who he’d been voting for (off and on) for days; a roleblock that stopped their night kill of **Guiri** would be bad, but an extra investigation would have been disastrous, and they could have decided to go belt-and-suspenders, especially if they’d lost a night kill to a roleblock already. So in either case, it seems that either **Alka** hit the target with his roleblock, or the scum played against the percentages. **Meeko** ’s “either **Drain** is scum or **Drain** is scum” argument is pretty far off the rails. I’m not sure how much credit I want to extend to the “That’s just **Meeko** ” account, but there isn’t much more. Complicating factors further, we have **skeezix** , one of **Alka** ’s suspects, going after **Drain** , another of **Alka** ’s suspects. I’m still really not liking **Drain’s** votes on me; I don’t have a big problem with the fact that people were voting for me - I did make a very bad vote on Day 2, and it had a scummy outcome - but I’ll stand by my initial criticism of her analysis of my Day 3 vote; it was not a “safe” vote in the sense that it didn’t put **Freudian** in danger. She compounds this with her explanation, where she mentions that she [is voting for me, in part, because I saved Freudian on multiple occasions](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11974598&postcount=1112), whereas in her initial vote post she mentions that [she regarded my unvoting **Freudian** following her claim as a null tell](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11973756&postcount=1092); so which is it? I didn’t do anything to save Freudian on Day 1, unless you count voting for **pede** after **peeker** ’s counterclaim; so that only leaves my Day 3 unvote. Which is apparently both a null tell and a reason to vote for me. I now need to go do the job they’re paying me for; I’ll try to go back and reread the **Drain** / **Freudian** interaction and see if it makes sense as a bussing; for the moment, I will **vote Drain Bead** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1183 "2010-01-12T20:50:31Z")
If I’m Scum, why would I have attempted to bus **Freudian** on Day One, though? That’s a dangerous move for Scum to make at that point. According to the roles as shown in Post 67, the Scum knew one another’s identities on Day One, but not who had what role. Even if you assume I’m the Godfather or Roleblocker, it’s still odds not worth messing with to potentially bus the other one of that pair. I was going after **Freudian** pretty hard from early on in this game. If I were reluctant to go after her on Day One and only did it later, then you might have a case for a bussing. But as is, the only reason I unvoted **Freudian** on Day One was because we found the SK. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1184 "2010-01-12T21:30:08Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > If I’m Scum, why would I have attempted to bus **Freudian** on Day One, though? That’s a dangerous move for Scum to make at that point. According to the roles as shown in Post 67, the Scum knew one another’s identities on Day One, but not who had what role. Even if you assume I’m the Godfather or Roleblocker, it’s still odds not worth messing with to potentially bus the other one of that pair. I was going after **Freudian** pretty hard from early on in this game. Good points. And on the theory that the block on you on Night 3, rather than USC’s protection of peeker, stopped the kill, you’d have been very likely to be a Goon (on account of, why risk the Alpha?); in which case, there’d be a 2 in 3 chance you were bussing a power role. I just went back and looked at Freudian’s posts on Day 1, and if she signalled that she was a goon, I certainly didn’t see it (not in the evil-crumbing discussion, and not anywhere else I could see either); I’d assume anything like that would have been obvious enough in retrospect, at least. **unvote Drain Bead** **vote Meeko** for all-around weird votes, and particularly the eagerness with which he leaped on the DB wagon. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1185 "2010-01-12T21:50:43Z")
Further on **Meeko** , I believe he subbed in for **Rin** ; and as I was looking to see if **Freudian** had dropped any hints about her role, I came across a kind of weird little Socratic dialogue between Freudian and Rin. It started with **Rin’s** vote on **amrussell** ([218](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11860245&postcount=218)), where she accused him of dropping little hints for the scum into his post; Freudian followed up, well, read it yourself: > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > As others have pointed out, a day start is very unusual, too. And yes, it does make it so that scum is kind of coming in blindly. But I must be dense, **Rin** , because I don’t see why that has anything to do with **amrussell** being more likely to be scum. I’m not trying to be a tool but can you break it down for me a little more clearly? Right now I’m wary of the rush to jump on **amrussell**. > [@Rin\_Twisted](#): > > A day start means that the mafia didn’t have a chance to talk to one another before the game started and plan anything out. As soon as I heard we doing a day start game, I started wondering if scum would attempt to subtly communicate with each other and try to plan within the game. Amrussell has these long posts of ‘advice’ on dealing with scum and powerroles- some of which is actually pretty good advice- and then nestled inside of each are these ambiguous statements that, if I were scum, I would be taking as direction and strategy. I’d like to hear what amrussell has to say about this. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Oh. Like breadcrumbing for evil people. Evil crumbing! > > I’m willing to give **amrussell** a chance. Granted, I think the only game I had with him was one where he was town so I don’t have that same experience as you do. When was his last post–was it today or last night? I’m for waiting to give him a chance to come on, read, and explain himself. Though I’m not really sure what he could say. It’s a couple of sentences and he could easily respond with the fact that it’s just meaningless or that he slipped up or whatever. Knowing that **Freudian** is scum, is this **Rin** explaining all about how the scum can drop hints for each other in the game thread in case something needs to be decided on Day 1? A weird dynamic there, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1186 "2010-01-12T22:07:58Z")
Was it actually established that the scum did not know each other’s roles? **@Drain** - Why are you ignoring my request to give me your thoughts on the night 3 and 5 scenarios? **@Cookies** - Do you have a town read on Red, and if so why? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1187 "2010-01-12T22:27:24Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Was it actually established that the scum did not know each other’s roles? I looked back at the Day 1 discussion, and while people highlighted the scum PM: > [@special\_ed](#): > > **Scum Goon:** **2 in the Game** > **Win Condition:** You win when the number of living Scum players is equal to or greater than the number of living players and the SK is dead. > **Power:** If selected by the Scum, you may perform the Scum Night Kill that Night. > \*\*Scum Communication:\*\*Each Night, you may discuss the game with the other Scum players at XXXXXXXXXXXX. Please register for the site. The password is zzzzzzzz. The other Scum are YYYYYYYYYYYY I don’t believe anyone specifically asked Ed. **Did the scum receive the roles of their fellow scum on Day 1, or only the names?** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1188 "2010-01-12T22:49:59Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > vote Meeko for all-around weird votes, and particularly the eagerness with which he leaped on the DB wagon. Weird Votes? I can has OMGUS? And furthermore, what does a Weird Meeko Vote look like? Isn’t that a double negative? > [@Meeko](#): > > 1. I am working on the assumption that Peeker is our Vig. > 2. I am working on the assumption that Drain is scum. > 3. I am working on the assumption that Scum will kill every chance they get. This might be WIFOM\* on my part, but I think given how this game is going, it is a good bet. > > You tell us you blocked Drain. > You tell us that, that night, Peeker was blocked. > > That night there was no night kill. > There was no Vig Kill > There was no Scum Kill > > I’m not about to vote for Peeker. > > I’m left voting Drain, as I have. > > Am I missing something? ““Weird Votes”” ?! Really? Apparently everyone else sees something wrong with my logic. \*\* We know that Drain was blocked on a night with no night kill. He has not claimed a power role. In fact, he is claiming Vanilla. :dubious: I do not see where I am wrong here. Apparently, asking for clarification doesn’t help.\*\* **Peeker:** 1.Are you lead to believe that there were nights where you were blocked from your Vig kill? 2.Are you still claiming Vig? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1189 "2010-01-12T23:15:56Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > **Did the scum receive the roles of their fellow scum on Day 1, or only the names?** :smack: ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1190 "2010-01-13T01:07:20Z")
**Vote Count** with about 4 days, 0 hours, and 53 minutes to go (peak vote in parentheses) with 9 players alive, it will take 7 votes to start a countdown timer **3 Votes** \ ***Drain Bead** (4 #1182) Red Skeezix (1164), Meeko (1174), Drain Bead (1178), Tom Scud (1182 1184) **Meeko** (3 #1184) Mental Guy (1168), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1170), Tom Scud (1184) **0 Votes** **Tom Scud** **peekercpa** **storyteller0910** **Alka Seltzer** **Red Skeezix** **Mental Guy** **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** \*Lynch Leader **Not voting:** peekercpa, storyteller0910, Alka Seltzer ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1191 "2010-01-13T01:11:43Z")
**Um Ed, I think your vote count is wrong. I don’t think Drain ever voted for herself.** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1192 "2010-01-13T01:25:50Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > **Um Ed, I think your vote count is wrong. I don’t think Drain ever voted for herself.** A valid point ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1193 "2010-01-13T01:28:47Z")
**Corrected Vote Count** with about 4 days, 0 hours, and 32 minutes to go (peak vote in parentheses) with 9 players alive, it will take 7 votes to start a countdown timer. **4 Votes** \ ***Meeko** (4 #1184) Mental Guy (1168), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1170), Drain Bead (1178), Tom Scud (1184) **2 Votes** **Drain Bead** (3 #1182) Red Skeezix (1164), Meeko (1174), Tom Scud (1182 1184) **0 Votes** **Tom Scud** **peekercpa** **storyteller0910** **Alka Seltzer** **Red Skeezix** **Mental Guy** **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** \*Lynch Leader **Not voting:** peekercpa, storyteller0910, Alka Seltzer ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1194 "2010-01-13T10:18:21Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > :smack: I’m assuming that the scum players did know what roles the other players had. This is supposed to be a very straightforward mafia game, and unknown scum roles at the start would be an innovation I haven’t come across before. From #67, in the scum role PMs: > [@](#): > > The other Scum are YYYYYYYYYYYY I expect it says “the other scum are XXXXXX who is the XXXXXX, YYYYYY who is the YYYYYY and ZZZZZZ who is the ZZZZZZ” rather than “the other scum are XXXXXX, YYYYYY and ZZZZZZ”. If I’m right about this, Drain’s self defence argument is not valid. It’s a weak defence anyway, not every vote for scum is a bus. **Honestly Ed, I don’t think we are being thick here, just paranoid. There is some ambiguity. It would save us all some frustration and time if you’d just answer the questions please.** ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1195 "2010-01-13T10:51:44Z")
**@MentalGuy** - I’m also waiting to hear your thoughts on the possible blocks. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1196 "2010-01-13T16:41:20Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Was it actually established that the scum did not know each other’s roles? > > **@Drain** - Why are you ignoring my request to give me your thoughts on the night 3 and 5 scenarios? I’m sorry. I figured my claim cleared up the question of Night 3, as my being Vanilla makes the only other option that the Scum went after a protected **peeker**. As for Night 5, I don’t know why you’re asking me what happened, when it seems like everyone involved in Night actions other than the Scum have confessed to doing them. What is it you’d like cleared up that I can help with? I also don’t know if it was officially established that the Scum didn’t know one another’s roles. I know we had a short discussion about it on Day One, because I was assuming they DID know, until someone else pointed out that the role PM construction in post 67 said that they only knew names, not roles. Wonder who that was who said that, actually. Don’t have time to go back and look ATM. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1197 "2010-01-13T16:42:23Z")
Oh, and **Meeko** …I have an innie, not an outie. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1198 "2010-01-13T16:47:41Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I also don’t know if it was officially established that the Scum didn’t know one another’s roles. I know we had a short discussion about it on Day One, because I was assuming they DID know, until someone else pointed out that the role PM construction in post 67 said that they only knew names, not roles. > > Wonder who that was who said that, actually. Don’t have time to go back and look ATM. I think **Guiri** first pointed it out, and **Rin** endorsed **Guiri’s** reading. This is from memory and I don’t have the post numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1199 "2010-01-13T16:59:17Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > What is it you’d like cleared up that I can help with? Same thing that I want from all non-confirmed players, I’d like your take on what is the most likely reason that Peeker wasn’t blocked last night please. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729/1200 "2010-01-13T17:38:29Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Same thing that I want from all non-confirmed players, I’d like your take on what is the most likely reason that Peeker wasn’t blocked last night please. There are four scenarios that should be considered by all town players as to why Peek was not blocked last night. 1 (Blocker is Blocked). Red Skeezix (me) is the scum roleblocker and scum did try to block peeker last night. I know this is not true. But there is no possible way any town player would be able to know this. (If it was someone else who was blocked last night I’d be looking real closely at their posts. And I do hope that my fellow townsfolk are looking at mine.) 2 (Overkill). Scum blocked guiri: Possible Motive: Scum felt that their killer was exposed and might be roleblocked, so they wanted to ensure that no detective result would be forthcoming today. Since town only has one roleblocker, we would not be able to prevent both a kill and a roleblock. 3 & 4 (WiFoM). Scum did not block, or fired into the crowd: Possible Motives: Scum would anticipate that they would be expected to block peek and kill guiri, so they felt that not blocking peek would throw suspicion onto who ever the town roleblocker blocked. Maybe they thought that the town roleblocker wouldn’t claim today and they would be able to suss out who it was simply by looking at who is suspicious of who. In my own personal opinion I think the overkill scenario (2) is the most likely with (1) being impossible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/colorless-mafia/519729.md?page=61)