# Columbia Student and her mattress protest/art exhibit. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 20, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442 "2015-05-20T19:41:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/41 "2015-06-05T14:57:10Z")
Errrrrr. What? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/42 "2015-06-05T22:10:12Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > The title is “Ceci N’est Pas Un Viol” “Tish! You spoke French!” ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/43 "2015-06-05T22:48:16Z")
Say what you will about this whole debacle, the video does an excellent job of distilling the line between “forcible rape” and “I said stop but I didn’t do everything in my power to stop you.” She could have kicked the guy in the face or nads, or punched him, or yelled “rape!”, or done some overt action to get him to stop. Just saying “stop” while otherwise letting a guy continue to fuck you is the grey area between (consensual) aggressive sex and forcible rape. I initially thought the video was a cheap ploy, but it did expose these questions very effectively. I have to admit that, as a man, I watch the video and I don’t see “rape” by traditional standards. As I see it, if you are being raped, then you do everything in your power to get the guy off you. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/44 "2015-06-05T23:23:12Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > As I see it, if you are being raped, then you do everything in your power to get the guy off you. You can also end up dead that way. Did you read the case of the New York City homeless shelter director: > [@](#): > > Ana Charle, 36, a native of Spain and a mother of two, was shot and killed April 27 allegedly by Spruill, a former resident of Project Renewal’s Bronx Boulevard, a homeless shelter at 4380 Bronx Blvd. in the Wakefield section of the Bronx, according to the Bronx district attorney’s office. > > Spruill, who was a resident of the shelter up until early January, allegedly approached Charle as she got into her car, got in and forced her to drive to a more secluded area a block and a half away, according to Johnson. > > Witnesses said she fled from the car naked and Spruill, also naked, followed her with a gun, Johnson said. > > He chased her down and shot her multiple times, Johnson added. [http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2015/22/bronxshelter\_2015\_05\_29\_q.html](http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2015/22/bronxshelter_2015_05_29_q.html) If she had submitted to the rape instead of fleeing she might still be alive. (or maybe not) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/45 "2015-06-05T23:55:23Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > You can also end up dead that way. Did you read the case of the New York City homeless shelter director: …which is why all the women’s self-defense classes I’ve ever seen or heard of just teach to “graciously submit”? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/46 "2015-06-06T00:47:38Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Say what you will about this whole debacle, the video does an excellent job of distilling the line between “forcible rape” and “I said stop but I didn’t do everything in my power to stop you.” > > She could have kicked the guy in the face or nads, or punched him, or yelled “rape!”, or done some overt action to get him to stop. Just saying “stop” while otherwise letting a guy continue to fuck you is the grey area between (consensual) aggressive sex and forcible rape. … I don’t get this. If your partner tells you to stop, why would you not, you know, just stop? The worst that can happen is that she says, “what, I didn’t mean it, keep going”. Why are you not, at best, being incredibly selfish by just keeping on going because you didn’t get a kick in the nuts? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/47 "2015-06-06T13:08:16Z")
Sexual Act which is persisted after knowledge or belief that consent is withdrawn is rape. There can be no argument there. There is no legal “grey area”. It might present challenges for evidence but not law. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/48 "2015-06-07T13:58:34Z")
I can see only three possible conclusions from her latest actions. #1 She actively WANTED to be raped. Which leads to the further conclusion that she is clinically insane. #2 Despite the protestations of feminists to the contrary, there are in fact times when “no” does not actually mean no. #3 She desperately wants attention, and will do literally anything to get it. This is turn leads to the conclusion that she is not to be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/49 "2015-06-07T21:06:43Z")
Of course there are literally times where no doesn’t mean no. But those times are pretty damn rare, and anyway, the phrase is supposed to be a guide to action, under the assumption that, as I said above, it’s better to annoy your partner when she says you can keep on going than to, you know, commit rape. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/50 "2015-06-07T21:53:28Z")
Yeah, I find it ironic that the same people who say rape claims are over-inflated are also the ones saying it’s not rape to have sex with someone who is telling you to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/51 "2015-06-08T12:36:11Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I can see only three possible conclusions from her latest actions. > > #1 She actively WANTED to be raped. Which leads to the further conclusion that she is clinically insane. > > #2 Despite the protestations of feminists to the contrary, there are in fact times when “no” does not actually mean no. > > #3 She desperately wants attention, and will do literally anything to get it. This is turn leads to the conclusion that she is not to be trusted. I would say it’s #3 with a side of she enjoys being a victim because she thinks that makes her better than everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/52 "2015-06-08T12:40:25Z")
> [@Catamount](#): > > I would say it’s #3 with a side of she enjoys being a victim because she thinks that makes her better than everyone else. Me too. It reminds me of someone I knew in college (actually, she also went to Columbia). She wasn’t raped, but she was sexually harassed/assaulted during a modeling gig, and seems to really…enjoy? writing about it (blogs, HuffPo, etc.). I mean you feel bad for anyone who’s been raped or assaulted, but you get this odd sensation that the person enjoys reliving it…or that they’re getting something out of it. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/53 "2015-06-08T21:15:04Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > …#3 She desperately wants attention, and will do literally anything to get it. This is turn leads to the conclusion that she is not to be trusted. (post shortened) I’m shocked. :rolleyes: Emma Sulkowicz won’t be able to continue to gain attention by dragging her mattress to job interviews, so she decides to makes a porno. A video on a USB flash drive is so much easier to carry. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/54 "2015-06-09T15:20:04Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Me too. It reminds me of someone I knew in college (actually, she also went to Columbia). She wasn’t raped, but she was sexually harassed/assaulted during a modeling gig, and seems to really…enjoy? writing about it (blogs, HuffPo, etc.). I mean you feel bad for anyone who’s been raped or assaulted, but you get this odd sensation that the person enjoys reliving it…or that they’re getting something out of it. Rape fantasies do exist but most people have the good sense to keep theirs private and not drag the rest of the world into them. People like the person you knew and Madame Emma haven’t figured that part of it out yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/55 "2015-06-09T17:22:37Z")
Not sure if this has been posted yet. > **[The Mattress Story Under More Fire - Minding The Campus](https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2015/02/10/the-mattress-story-under-more-fire/)** > > My recent article in The Daily Beast exploring previously unknown details of Columbia’s high-profile “mattress girl” rape case—including the fact that alleged victim Emma Sulkowicz continued to have chatty and playful Facebook exchanges with alleged... ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/56 "2015-06-09T20:49:51Z")
So is the objection of the posts on this page that someone isn’t acting the way you think a rape victim SHOULD behave, or that she isn’t acting the way you think rape victims ALWAYS behaves? ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/57 "2015-06-09T21:32:58Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So is the objection of the posts on this page that someone isn’t acting the way you think a rape victim SHOULD behave, or that she isn’t acting the way you think rape victims ALWAYS behaves? Think it’s more a case that her story is very inconsistent and might not be based on, you know, reality. Also, colleges shouldn’t be handling matters that should be handled by the legal system. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/58 "2015-06-09T21:35:52Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Think it’s more a case that her story is very inconsistent and might not be based on, you know, reality. > > Also, colleges shouldn’t be handling matters that should be handled by the legal system. Should colleges handle it if the police choose not to? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/59 "2015-06-09T23:32:28Z")
> [@Catamount](#): > > Rape fantasies do exist but most people have the good sense to keep theirs private and not drag the rest of the world into them. People like the person you knew and Madame Emma haven’t figured that part of it out yet. I don’t even think, at least with the person I know, that it was a rape fantasy exactly. More like that she got something out of being the center of attention and out of playing the role of victim/empowered survivor. And of getting people talking about her. > [@Leaper](#): > > So is the objection of the posts on this page that someone isn’t acting the way you think a rape victim SHOULD behave, or that she isn’t acting the way you think rape victims ALWAYS behaves? I don’t feel like she’s being criticized as a “bad” rape victim. She’s being criticized as someone whose art (or something) makes her seem self-centered and narcissistic. I don’t think that being a rape victim precludes you from criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442/60 "2015-06-09T23:46:47Z")
The objection that I have to Ms. Sulkowicz’s “art project” is that she used it to accuse the young man of a heinous crime in the court of public opinion. A court where he cannot possibly defend himself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-student-and-her-mattress-protest-art-exhibit/720442.md?page=4)