# Columbia Tragedy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133 "2003-02-01T18:10:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ccline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@ccline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccline)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/1 "2003-02-01T18:10:23Z")
In light of the space shuttle Columbia crashing today, does anyone know how many people have died as a result space shuttle accidents? Please keep the families of the astronauts in your prayers, and may God give them peace ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/2 "2003-02-01T18:13:05Z")
14 7 on the Challenger, 7 on Columbia (I’m presuming there are no survivors today. I’d be happy to be wrong on this point, but I’m not expecting to be.) ---
**Author:** ![PlanMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PlanMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanMan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/3 "2003-02-01T18:19:48Z")
Although not in space - 3 in the Apollo 1 capsule fire on the pad during a practice before the first scheduled launch. I think a Soviet mission failed on re-entry back in the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/4 "2003-02-01T18:25:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PlanMan \* > \*\*I think a Soviet mission failed on re-entry back in the 1960s. \*\* One died in Soyuz 1 (multiple failures culminating in tangled parachutes), and three died in 1970, on Soyuz 11 (seperation bolt mis-firing leading to accidentally opened cabin pressure-equalization valve during re-entry). ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/5 "2003-02-01T18:28:15Z")
There were actually a good number of deaths in the Soviet space program (estimates vary wildly, and depend on if you could rockets malfunctioning, deaths of ground crew, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/6 "2003-02-01T18:30:00Z")
This was the first time NASA lost a returning crew. ---
**Author:** ![hobbes730](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/97f17d/32.png) [@hobbes730](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobbes730)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/7 "2003-02-01T18:58:06Z")
The Soviets went so far as to airbrush crewmembers out of crew photos to cover up their deaths, so I think it’s impossible to say exactly how many people died in their early space program. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/8 "2003-02-01T19:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hobbes730 \* > \*\*The Soviets went so far as to airbrush crewmembers out of crew photos to cover up their deaths, so I think it’s impossible to say exactly how many people died in their early space program. \*\* This appears to have been done mostly for political reasons - at least one cosmonaut was airbrushed out not after dying, but after being dishonorbly drummed out of the program. The rumors of lost cosmonauts have been researched, and don’t appear to be true. [http://www.astronautix.com/astrogrp/phanauts.htm](http://www.astronautix.com/astrogrp/phanauts.htm) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/9 "2003-02-01T19:05:27Z")
While I don’t have a precise figure, if you were to look at fatalities per person hour, space travel with NASA would probably come out as one of the safer activities out there. If you add in the Russian program, it gets a little worse, but it’s still a lot better than driving a car. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/10 "2003-02-01T19:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*If you add in the Russian program, it gets a little worse \*\* Gets a little better, actually. The Russians have had a lot more hours in flight with fewer fatalities. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/11 "2003-02-01T19:14:58Z")
> [@](#): > > While I don’t have a precise figure, if you were to look at fatalities per person hour, space travel with NASA would probably come out as one of the safer activities out there. If you add in the Russian program, it gets a little worse, but it’s still a lot better than driving a car. I’d like a cite for that. In terms of fatalities per hour of activity, I believe manned spaceflight is one of the most dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/12 "2003-02-01T19:19:54Z")
So is there going to be a moratorium on launches or will they continue, at a much slower pace, so the ISS isn’t full of starving or dead astronauts? ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/13 "2003-02-01T19:23:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raisinbread \* > \*\*So is there going to be a moratorium on launches or will they continue, at a much slower pace, so the ISS isn’t full of starving or dead astronauts? \*\* The ISS can be safely serviced by Russian Soyuz craft. the Shuttle is only needed if we want to add new modules to the ISS. The crew up there can get supplies or return by Soyuz if they need to. I wouldn’t be suprised if the Shuttle and ISS get scrapped in the near future, though. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/14 "2003-02-01T19:27:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*I’d like a cite for that. In terms of fatalities per hour of activity, I believe manned spaceflight is one of the most dangerous. \*\* I’ll get back to you on that. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/15 "2003-02-01T20:36:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AndrewL \* > \*\*The ISS can be safely serviced by Russian Soyuz craft. the Shuttle is only needed if we want to add new modules to the ISS. The crew up there can get supplies or return by Soyuz if they need to. > > I wouldn’t be suprised if the Shuttle and ISS get scrapped in the near future, though. \*\* President Bush commented that exploration into space/the space program would continue - that as tragic as this was, it would not stop the space program. I don’t think that this would lead to the US scrapping this, especially not after Bush’s comments. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/16 "2003-02-01T20:52:25Z")
So what do they do about the guys up in the space station now? I assume all shuttles will be grounded for a long time to come; how are they gonna get down? ---
**Author:** ![Pigs\_in\_Space](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@Pigs\_in\_Space](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pigs_in_Space)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/17 "2003-02-01T21:01:15Z")
The Space Station has a Russian Soyuz vehicle permanently docked - basically a lifeboat. Also, most resupply missions are uncrewed Russian rockets, so they’re not going to starve any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/18 "2003-02-01T21:03:24Z")
The ISS can be fully serviced by Soyuz craft … as everyone said. A Progress rocket (unmanned supply truck) was already on the launch pad, and will go up as scheduled. Columbia itself could never go to ISS. It’s too heavy to make it worthwhile to get it up to that orbit (which is much farther north than most US orbits as a concession to the Russians, whose Baikonur Cosmodrome is farther north than Cape Canaveral). So the astronauts up at the ISS will still get supplies, and if NASA grounds the entire fleet for an extended period, the astronauts can always take a Russian Soyuz capsule and land in Asia, just as the Mir astronauts always did. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/19 "2003-02-01T21:06:56Z")
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1136721.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1136721.stm) > [@](#): > > Thursday, 25 January, 2001, 16:03 GMT > Fishing labelled ‘most dangerous job’ > > An estimated 24,000 fishermen die each year > > Fishing at sea may be the most dangerous occupation in the world, according to a United Nations report. > > An average of 70 fishermen lose their lives every day, says the report by the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), published in Italy. > > The study, based on estimates from the International Labour Organisation, says at least 24,000 lives are lost every year. > > The true figure could be even higher, as not all countries keep reliable statistics. > **[Dying To Work: America's Most Dangerous Jobs](https://www.forbes.com/2002/09/03/0903worksafe.html)** > > Workers in the woods and on the water, not cops or firefighters, are most likely to die on the job. > [@](#): > > America’s Most Dangerous Jobs > > Job Number Of Fatalities Fatality Rate\* > > Timber Cutters 105 122.1 > Fishermen 52 108.3 > Pilots 230 100.8 > Structural Metal Workers 47 59.5 > Extractive Occupations 69 53.9 > Roofers 65 30.2 > Construction Workers 288 28.3 > Truck Drivers 852 27.6 > > All Occupations 5,915 4.3 > > …In 2000, timber cutters had the most dangerous job, suffering 122 deaths per 100,000 employed. These workers toil in the woods accessible by dirt roads, with heavy machinery and amongst falling trees. > > The second most dangerous occupation is fishing, with fishermen dying at a rate of 108 per 100,000 of those employed. > > Airplane pilots have the third most dangerous occupation, with a death rate of 101 per 100,000. Nearly all of these deaths resulted from small-plane crashes, not on passenger jets. > > Structural metal workers and what the BLS calls extractive occupations (mining and drilling) round out the list of the top five most dangerous occupations, though neither group dies on the job at even half the rate of timber cutters. > > Nationwide, 142 police officers and 43 firefighters died on the job in 2000. > > The third most common cause of death on the job in 2000 was homicide, which claimed 677 workers. Fifty cops were murdered. But so were 205 salespeople. Falls were the second most common cause of death, accounting for 12% of the total. Not surprisingly, roofers and structural metal workers were the most likely to meet this fate. > > The most common cause of death on the job in 2000, however, was the car accident, accounting for 23% of the total. Even police officers were slightly more likely to die behind the wheel than by homicide. Do astronauts have a big enough sampling base to be able to get any statistically meaningful numbers? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133/20 "2003-02-01T21:12:09Z")
The space shuttles are used to add new segments/equipment to MIR - they just said on the NASA news brief that the ISS can go til mid June or even July before needing a space shuttle to go up to help deliver something. Are the 3 remaining space shuttles interchangeable? If Columbia (for example) was scheduled for an “important” delivery to Mir, can Endeavour or Discovery or Atlantis simply be used instead, or are the months needed to prepare each shuttle THAT intense that one could not be sent up in the place of another? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/columbia-tragedy/152133.md?page=2)