# Combat Zeppelins, Why Not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 5, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355 "2008-01-05T01:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/41 "2008-01-06T05:20:21Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] My guess is that you could run a rigid built to modern technological standards on the order of 300 MPH. [/QUOTE] I’d say this is far, far above what’s practical, or even possible. At anything like that speed, the aerodynamic forces on something the size of an airship would be enormous (much larger than on a 747 at 600 kts). You’d need monster engines (and fuel tanks) to cope with that. You’d need a fantastically strong hull to hold its shape - and such a hull would necessarily be heavy, compromising payload. My guess would be that the unavoidable tradeoffs between speed and weight dictate a practical maximum speed around 120 knots. I’m reasonably sure no airship has yet attained that. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/42 "2008-01-06T05:41:22Z")
[QUOTE=Xema] I’d say this is far, far above what’s practical, or even possible. At anything like that speed, the aerodynamic forces on something the size of an airship would be enormous (much larger than on a 747 at 600 kts). You’d need monster engines (and fuel tanks) to cope with that. You’d need a fantastically strong hull to hold its shape - and such a hull would necessarily be heavy, compromising payload. My guess would be that the unavoidable tradeoffs between speed and weight dictate a practical maximum speed around 120 knots. [/QUOTE] I agree with you, **Xema**. The question also becomes, where do you draw the lines for what is an airship, and what is an airplane. I’ve read about a hybrid that actually only achieves part of its lift from the lifting cells, and then makes use of lifting body designs to generate lift to counteract the remaining negative buoyancy. But that’s no longer what I’d call a dirigible, and it then compromises much of the advantage for the OP’s purpose, of being able to cheaply float in the combat theatre to provide surveillance. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/43 "2008-01-06T06:21:48Z")
What does a giant balloon of death give us that we don’t already have? We have cheap ways to deliver lots of firepower to a combat zone already. We have surveilance ability that matches what a zeppelin could give us already (especially if we already have enough superiority in the area to not be worried about SAMs). We already have powerful weapons with huge psychological impact. So we’re getting a zeppelin for what, exactly? I agree that it’s totally freakin’ awesome, but it doesn’t seem to fill any practical gap in military power. The only thing it might be useful for is to lift heavy stuff, like an earlier poster said. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/44 "2008-01-06T09:18:09Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] shred a big hole in its side with hundreds of little pieces of flying . [/QUOTE] My God, it’s full of holes ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/45 "2008-01-06T12:44:30Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] For this zeppelin to work, I think they’d have to make it out of Led. Only a Led Zeppelin would rock hard enough to defeat the enemy. [/QUOTE] No sorry mate,the British Ministry of Defence did a feasability study on this very subject and found that at night in low cloud the Zep could be detected at five miles or more by their characteristic audio signature “A Whole Lotta Love” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/46 "2008-01-06T18:34:09Z")
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth\_Blimp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_Blimp) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/47 "2008-01-06T18:43:57Z")
(Dammit, every time this shows up in New Posts, I twitch. Feels like I’m being called out for a duel or something! 😃 ) Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/48 "2008-01-06T21:04:55Z")
[QUOTE=Projammer] The only really viable assault vector against one would be from directly beneath it, but with it at an altitude of a mile or more there would be plenty of time for a missile to be interdicted. [/QUOTE] In WWII, we had anti aircraft artillery that could reach a height of over 10 miles. We don’t rely on them anymore because missiles are more accurate at distance. You don’t need super accuracy when trying to hit a 500 foot long airship. Just get close and detonate with lots of fragmentation. You might be able to intercept a missile from a distance, good luck intercepting a shell that’s all of 5 inches wide. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/49 "2008-01-06T21:38:53Z")
Speaking of rockin’ Zeppelins… On their current tour, Van Halen is flying remote-controlled, non-combat airships around to amuse crowds during the interval. [Van Halen’s RC Zeppelins](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woADQ8Q1Xo0) ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/50 "2008-01-06T22:01:47Z")
So, am I right in reading that a combat zeppelin would be possible, but not practical, because of engineering costs, vulnerability to anti-air artillery, and the existence of other technology to get the same surveillance benefits? Because if a huge-ass high-altitude blimp is possible, I may need to start another OP on a similar subject. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/51 "2008-01-06T22:39:02Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] So, am I right in reading that a combat zeppelin would be possible, but not practical… [/QUOTE] [I started a thread with a slightly more historical slant](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=450433) - it may turn out interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/52 "2008-01-06T22:42:33Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] My God, it’s full of holes [/QUOTE] Well, if we don’t need a combat zeppelin, maybe we could help the RAF build one? It could be named the _Blackburn, Lancashire_. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/53 "2008-01-07T00:45:50Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] (Dammit, every time this shows up in New Posts, I twitch. Feels like I’m being called out for a duel or something! 😃 ) [/QUOTE] I believe that, as the one challenged, you have the choice of weapons. If combat zeppelins are satisfactory to you, the next step is for **Projammer** to propose a field of combat (or in this case, an airfield of combat). As ever, the French light the way in such affairs of honor: > [@](#): > > Two Frenchmen chose to fight from balloons over Paris because they believed they had ‘elevated minds’. Monsieur de Grandpre and Monsieur de Pique quarreled over a famous dancer called Mademoiselle Tirevit, who was mistress of one and lover of the other. So, at 9am on May 3, 1808, watched by a huge crowd, the two Parisians climbed into their aircraft near the Tuileries and rose gently up in to the morning air. At about 2,000 feet, when the balloons were about 80 yards apart, de Pique fired his crude blunderbuss and miss. De Grandpre aimed his more effectively. De Pique’s balloon collapsed, the basket tipped, and he and his second fell headfirst to their deaths on the rooftops below. De Granpre and his second, however, drifted happily away in the light north-westerly breeze before landing safely 20 miles away. –_Duel: a True Story of Death and Honour_, by James Landale (as quoted by [Curious Expeditions](http://curiousexpeditions.org/?p=157)) ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/54 "2008-01-07T01:15:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] What does a giant balloon of death give us that we don’t already have? We have cheap ways to deliver lots of firepower to a combat zone already. We have surveilance ability that matches what a zeppelin could give us already (especially if we already have enough superiority in the area to not be worried about SAMs). We already have powerful weapons with huge psychological impact. So we’re getting a zeppelin for what, exactly? I agree that it’s totally freakin’ awesome, but it doesn’t seem to fill any practical gap in military power. The only thing it might be useful for is to lift heavy stuff, like an earlier poster said. [/QUOTE] A stealth blimp has huge psychological impact. A giant light-luminescent- ever 3 dimensionally camoflagued, invisible, hovering presence, that sees your every move from miles away? Scares me as it is. Could saturate an entire battlefield this way. No more launching of and waiting on satelites. Reminds me of the Giant UFO’s in Independence day hovering over the cities. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/55 "2008-01-07T01:34:32Z")
I think an idea with even greater psychological impact would be to build two giant spherical balloons that look just like eyes staring down, and hover them over the target country. I like \*\*Sage Rat’s \*\* Wikipedia link to the “stealth blimp” phenomenon. What phenomenon could possibly explain multiple sightings of huge triangular light formations moving slowly across the night sky? In fairness, though: I have actually seen one of these things myself, and was briefly fooled by it. It was moving over north Tampa at night, and for several seconds I totally saw it as a single giant floating craft of some kind-- I guess the mind’s natural inclination is to connect the dots and interpret them as part of the same object. I even hallucinated bits of illuminated superstructure for a moment. I might have never realized exactly what the ‘lights’ on the thing really were if they hadn’t started quacking. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/56 "2008-01-07T04:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] Have a tethered, armored, weather balloon in the center of a tempory base or secure point as a 100 meter platform for infrared cameras, long distance cameras, radar, and a remote GE mini chain gun. [/QUOTE] The interesting thing about this suspended chain gun is that it could be effectively limitless in firepower. The rounds could be fed from a delayed ground system and act as counter weight and ballast. The kite’s tail, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/57 "2008-01-07T04:36:54Z")
!00metrebandoliers ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/58 "2008-01-07T14:15:12Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] Have a tethered, armored, weather balloon in the center of a tempory base or secure point as a 100 meter platform for infrared cameras, long distance cameras, radar, and a remote GE mini chain gun. [/QUOTE] [Here ya’ go.](http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d170/pauljamesog/Aeronef/WarZeppelin.jpg) We just need to fill it with the 8th ray of Barsoom. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/59 "2008-01-07T15:31:12Z")
I hate to even bring this up… But this is something I occasionally flash the geek badge on… Armed airships (such as balloons and zeplins) are outlawed by the geneva convention. Not that I’d expect that to stop anyone if the idea was good enough, but… Just thought I’d mention it. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355/60 "2008-01-07T16:02:34Z")
[QUOTE=ArrMatey!] I hate to even bring this up… But this is something I occasionally flash the geek badge on… Armed airships (such as balloons and zeplins) are outlawed by the geneva convention. Not that I’d expect that to stop anyone if the idea was good enough, but… Just thought I’d mention it. [/QUOTE] Damned short-sighted fools! I blame Robor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/combat-zeppelins-why-not/432355.md?page=4)