# Comcast blocks bittorrent ... crosses the line? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392 "2007-10-20T15:38:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/21 "2007-10-20T18:10:16Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Ellacoya, frankly, is full of shit. They’re claiming that they can detect 99% of all internet traffic correctly – including encrypted traffic. Not a chance. [/QUOTE] Where are they claiming that? > [@](#): > > CHICAGO–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Ellacoya Networks™, Inc., a leading provider of carrier-class broadband service optimization solutions for IP networks, today released findings based on usage data of approximately one million broadband subscribers in North America. > > SOURCE: [http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news\_view&newsId=20070618005912&newsLang=en](http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070618005912&newsLang=en) ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/22 "2007-10-20T18:12:26Z")
Well, just add up their numbers: > [@](#): > > Wondering how the rise of online video will impact Internet capacity? According to data released this week by Ellacoya Networks, YouTube now accounts for 10 percent of all Internet traffic, and 20 percent of all HTTP traffic. Here’s a breakdown of Ellacoya’s data by type: > > ``` > * HTTP traffic 46% > * P2P traffic 37% > * Newsgroups 9% > * Non-http streaming video 3% > * Gaming 2% > * VoIP 1% > > ``` 46+37+9+3+2+1 = 98% ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/23 "2007-10-20T18:14:49Z")
Oh, and as others have mentioned P2P is in fact used for many legitimate purposes. As noted earlier World of Warcraft uses P2P to push out patches as do other games (such as EVE Online). Bit Torrent was bought out and now provides legal content on behalf of the likes of the RIAA. I buy games online now whenever I can and receive them via download (quite legally I assure you as my credit card bill will attest). How is it Comcast should peek into network traffic and make a decision on their own about what I should or should not be receiving? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/24 "2007-10-20T18:15:50Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Well, just add up their numbers: 46+37+9+3+2+1 = 98% [/QUOTE] So? That remaining 2% could be “Other” such as FTP. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/25 "2007-10-20T18:19:25Z")
You’re missing my point. My point is that Ellacoya is claiming that they can correctly identify basically all internet traffic. I call bullshit on this – they’re going to miss encrypted Bittorrent. So their “Other” category should be much larger than it is. Ellacoya’s fudging the numbers somewhere and it’s causing them to underestimate the percentage of bandwidth that goes to P2P. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/26 "2007-10-20T18:21:59Z")
at lunch one time some people I was with were joking to the owner of a Chinese Buffet about how much he stood to lose on the bunch of us. He said “if you’re worried about that…don’t have a all you can eat buffet” You sell someone a 10 meg pipe to the internet, don’t bitch when they use it. And you sure as hell don’t sabotage their downloads. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/27 "2007-10-20T18:22:32Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Oh, and as others have mentioned P2P is in fact used for many legitimate purposes. As noted earlier World of Warcraft uses P2P to push out patches as do other games (such as EVE Online). Bit Torrent was bought out and now provides legal content on behalf of the likes of the RIAA. I buy games online now whenever I can and receive them via download (quite legally I assure you as my credit card bill will attest). How is it Comcast should peek into network traffic and make a decision on their own about what I should or should not be receiving? [/QUOTE] This is a huge misconception. People think that ISPs such as Comcast mess with P2P because it’s often used for illegal filesharing. This is completely untrue. The ISPs, frankly, don’t give a damn what you download. All they care about is that P2P uses unlimited bandwidth and so they have to get it under control in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/28 "2007-10-20T18:24:13Z")
Ellacoya runs into the same problem that [Alexa.com](http://Alexa.com) does, taking a self-selected group of people that they’re stating counts for all Internet users. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/29 "2007-10-20T18:24:27Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] You sell someone a 10 meg pipe to the internet, don’t bitch when they use it. [/QUOTE] If you want a guaranteed 10 Megabit pipe to the internet, pay for it. Don’t pay for best-effort, shared bandwidth and complain that you’re not getting guaranteed service when you’re not willing to shell out for it. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/30 "2007-10-20T18:26:56Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Ellacoya runs into the same problem that [Alexa.com](http://Alexa.com) does, taking a self-selected group of people that they’re stating counts for all Internet users. [/QUOTE] Ellacoya is nothing like Alexa. Ellacoya sells Deep Packet Inspection(DPI) equipment to ISPs. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/31 "2007-10-20T18:27:11Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] You sell someone a 10 meg pipe to the internet, don’t bitch when they use it. And you sure as hell don’t sabotage their downloads. [/QUOTE] But let’s use your all you can eat analogy. If you pull up with a giant wheelbarrow and start filling it, the owner will throw you out. But if you eat four platefuls, you will have likely eaten more than the average person, but you’ll be allowed to finish. EDIT: [QUOTE=Rysto] Ellacoya is nothing like Alexa. Ellacoya sells Deep Packet Inspection(DPI) equipment to ISPs. [/QUOTE] I stand corrected, from the description I assumed Ellacoya was some user-based system. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/32 "2007-10-20T18:38:14Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] If you want a guaranteed 10 Megabit pipe to the internet, pay for it. Don’t pay for best-effort, shared bandwidth and complain that you’re not getting guaranteed service when you’re not willing to shell out for it. [/QUOTE] Then what are they selling? My ISP offered to upgrade me from a 2 Mb/s pipe to a 5 Mb/s pipe and I paid for it. You are saying they can tell me, “Well, we didn’t actually mean for you to USE that bandwidth!” To me this would be akin to a car manufacturer selling me a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty and then getting pissed off if I actually drove 36,000 miles in 3 years and to prevent that they will disable my car here and there to see that doesn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/33 "2007-10-20T18:38:43Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] …ISPs pull this kind of stuff(and believe me, using this type of technology is hardly limited to Comcast) because they really have no other choice. [/QUOTE] Sure they have a choice - they could impose a monthly bandwidth limit, and either cut off users who exceed it, or charge them more money. (Actually Comcast already does that as well, but they don’t tell you what the cutoff limit is. Read their contract, it says you can be disconnected for excessive usage, but there’s no hard number for that limit.) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/34 "2007-10-20T18:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Then what are they selling? My ISP offered to upgrade me from a 2 Mb/s pipe to a 5 Mb/s pipe and I paid for it. You are saying they can tell me, “Well, we didn’t actually mean for you to USE that bandwidth!” [/QUOTE] You seem to be confused as to how ISPs work. You are paying the width of the pipe (i.e. how fast your download speed is at any one point in time). Also note, this is a theoretical limit as no ISP would ever guarantee those speeds. What you think is happening is that you’re buying a length of pipe that never has to be turned off. That’s not (and never has been) how ISPs work. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/35 "2007-10-20T18:43:54Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Then what are they selling? My ISP offered to upgrade me from a 2 Mb/s pipe to a 5 Mb/s pipe and I paid for it. You are saying they can tell me, “Well, we didn’t actually mean for you to USE that bandwidth!” [/QUOTE] You can use all that bandwidth, just not continuously. It’s the guys who saturate their connection for weeks on end that really piss the ISPs off. > [@scr4](#): > > (Actually Comcast already does that as well, but they don’t tell you what the cutoff limit is. Read their contract, it says you can be disconnected for excessive usage, but there’s no hard number for that limit.) That’s Comcast’s version of the “Don’t be a jerk” rule. They won’t give a limit because they know that the abusers will just come in right under that limit. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/36 "2007-10-20T18:49:35Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] …What you think is happening is that you’re buying a length of pipe that never has to be turned off. That’s not (and never has been) how ISPs work. [/QUOTE] Then they made their own bed. I have yet to see a high-speed internet ad that doesn’t advertise the service along the lines of “your always-on connection”. They’re selling continuous high speed, so they should be prepared to take guff when they don’t provide what they sell. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/37 "2007-10-20T18:50:25Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] (Actually Comcast already does that as well, but they don’t tell you what the cutoff limit is. Read their contract, it says you can be disconnected for excessive usage, but there’s no hard number for that limit.) [/QUOTE] Actyually, they have…sort of. It’s about 90gigs: [http://kotaku.com/gaming/comcast/](http://kotaku.com/gaming/comcast/) ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/38 "2007-10-20T18:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] If you want a guaranteed 10 Megabit pipe to the internet, pay for it. Don’t pay for best-effort, shared bandwidth and complain that you’re not getting guaranteed service when you’re not willing to shell out for it. [/QUOTE] I do pay for it. The provider sells me a 10 meg connection. I use it…most of the time for browsing or emails but occasionally for uploading images and video, or downloading say a knoppix image by bittorrent. To have that provider sabatoge my service at that point is fraud. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/39 "2007-10-20T18:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] But let’s use your all you can eat analogy. If you pull up with a giant wheelbarrow and start filling it, the owner will throw you out. But if you eat four platefuls, you will have likely eaten more than the average person, but you’ll be allowed to finish. . [/QUOTE] sure…when you walk in to the buffet they have rules posted. No take out, no sharing. As long as you follow those rules. they dont dump salt in the food if you are eating too much to get you to stop eating. Downloading files through bittorent isn’t against the rules the customer signed up for. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392/40 "2007-10-20T19:02:12Z")
The analogy really doesn’t apply to what they’re doing here. The closest thing is kicking people out, but that’s really closer to disconnecting people. Downloading files isn’t against the rules, but neither is online gaming, streaming video or VoIP. If they allow unrestricted P2P then they are in essence disallowing the rest. There’s only so much bandwidth to go around and they’re trying to ensure that non-P2P apps can have some. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-blocks-bittorrent-crosses-the-line/423392.md?page=3)