# Comcast broadband to suspend heavy users, but won't say how much you can use! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197 "2003-09-22T22:59:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/21 "2003-09-23T04:49:53Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by cheddarsnax \* > \*\* > I would switch to DSL, but I’ve used it before. I left Qwest because of two weeks of downtime, preceded by 4 straight weekends of spotty access (does nobody go to work there on weekends?)._\* I do have Qwest DSL available in my area, but I can honestly say that I’d go to dialup before going back to them. The connection was fine with them, but I’ve never in my life experienced worse customer service. I could go on for pages. The least egregious of the problems was when they shipped me (and charged me for) two $100 modem kits and then “lost” the one I sent back for credit. It took me six months to get that $100 back. And I’ve talked to three other people who had the exact same experience. Qwest is on the top of my evil corporate bastard shitlist. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/22 "2003-09-23T05:10:13Z")
The article is very clear on the issues involved and it’s less RIAA concerns than overall data pipeline issues . The heart of it is this > [@](#): > > Most broadband subscribers use their service for some music or video downloading, to send and receive digital photos or for other high-bandwidth applications. But ISPs say that a tiny percentage of people are using an enormous percentage of their total bandwidth. According to Comcast, just 6 percent of subscribers use about 78 percent of the company’s bandwidth. > > Cable networks are particularly susceptible to the dangers of this imbalanced usage, because all the homes in a given neighborhood share access to the same local network. One extremely high-volume user can therefore have a Net-slowing impact on his neighbors. > > Nor are DSL companies exempt from this issue, despite their rhetorical distain for caps today. Even if their subscribers don’t share their local wires, DSL uploads and downloads do wind up merging into a shared network a little farther upstream, and so heavy users can wind up having a negative impact on others’ speeds. > > For this reason, some analysts think that bandwidth usage caps will ultimately be a far more common part of the Net’s daily life, particularly at the lowest tiers of service. > > “It’s partly just so the economics make sense,” Jupiter’s Laszlo said. "If you’ve got someone downloading 60 gigabytes a month and paying $29.95, it’s hard to make it work ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/23 "2003-09-23T05:47:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phase42 \* > \*\*I’ll bet this is Comcast’s way of protecting themselves from RIAA subpoenas without coming right out and saying that they’re 86-ing MP3 downloaders. \*\* You may be right, but i have access to a bunch of sites from which i could easily download gigs and gigs a month, and it would all be legit. The sites i use are mainly databases and other academic sites to which i have access as a graduate student at my university. The stuff that i download includes things like dissertations, journal articles, newspaper articles, etc., and it is perfectly legal for me to do so as long as they are for educational purposes and are not reproduced for others. Also, there are plenty of internet sites that have large amounts of free, legal stuff for downloading. For instance, i get copies of speeches and radio interviews from some left-wing radio websites, and those specifically offer their content for non-profit downloading. The Library of Congress has masses of public-domain, downloadable stuff, including heaps of picture files, many of which are large (20+Mb), archival TIF files. And i also like to download videos of people hurting themselves from [punchbaby.com](http://punchbaby.com). And what about the person who subscribes to pay sites on an individual level. I know that a Lexis/Nexis subscriber could download plenty of info in a month, as could someone who subscribes, for example, to The Nation magazine’s digital archive. And what about all the porn paysite subscribers out there? While **astro** ’s post might be true, if a company wants to impose limits, then these limits should be clearly outlined in the contract, rather than arbitrarily imposed when the company decides that you’re using too much bandwidth. I would apply the same argument in addressing **cnotechris** ’s post; if Comcast wnat to limit residential users to a certain level of downloading, this should be made clear in the contract. I don’t care how much this guy is using; if he’s not breaking the explicit terms of his agreement, then he’s doing nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/24 "2003-09-23T06:01:34Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > The company’s terms of service say only that users cannot “represent (in the sole judgment of Comcast) an unusually large burden on the network.” Sounds rather dangerous to me, and isn’t the business model I would choose. But on the other hand, these policies are shaped by market forces. Comcast could just have a per-gigabyte pricing scheme, instead of a monthly rate, but the market seems to have resondly rejected this model. People don’t like having to worry about how much each download will cost them, and are willing to put up with the inefficiencies of a monthly rate. They could put up a solid cap, but people don’t like those either. So they present the illusion of unlimited downloads without the actuality. And this seems to be what people prefer. "took me six months to get that $100 back. " So you paid the $100, then tried to get it back? ---
**Author:** ![CaptBushido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@CaptBushido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptBushido)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/25 "2003-09-23T06:07:09Z")
I’m particularly frightened, not only because I have Comcast, but also because for the last week I have been continuously downloading: night and day! Better tone it down a bit… or get rebellious and make a stand, what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/26 "2003-09-23T06:14:41Z")
Well, it seems from **The Ryan** ’s post that Comcast has covered itself legally in its agreement. Still, i don’t much like any agreement where the Company maintains sole discretion, with no apparent avenue for redress on the part of the customer. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/27 "2003-09-23T13:57:03Z")
If they don’t want you as a customer, they have no obligation to keep you as a customer. If you are one of those super heavy users, you’re increasing the costs for everyone. My only caveat is that they should be fair about cancelling service. They should refund any set up fees or equipment fees, and should give ample warning so the user can keep their usage reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/28 "2003-09-23T14:24:04Z")
Comcast sucks, big time. I actually still am an AOL subscriber because Comcast goes down from time to time with no explanation. (And if anybody else experiences this, let me know. My cable internet’s modem will have the 4 light blaring and the fifth blinking to let me know it’s sending, receiving, online etc. If there’s no connection, it’ll just have the first 1 or 2 lights on or blinking like it’s trying to connect. This will happen from time to time and sometimes last a day or two. I check the connections [and this cable internet is on a spliced cable installed by then AT&T that Ys to go to the TV as well as the cable modem. The TV keeps playing cable so I know that’s not unplugged from the wall]. I reboot, unplug, recycle the computer and the external modem until I finally plug in the phone cord and dial-up on AOL. The real kicker is, I make a service call to get this fixed. They plan on coming out a couple days later. By the time the scheduled repair date comes, it’s back up and running so I have to cancel the repair date or get charged as they only will do this gratis if they can find the problem, otherwise it’s just me. Anybody have this shit or know how to fix it?) ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/29 "2003-09-23T14:46:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > \*\*Well, it seems from The Ryan’s post that Comcast has covered itself legally in its agreement. Still, i don’t much like any agreement where the Company maintains sole discretion, with no apparent avenue for redress on the part of the customer. \*\* You must be awfully uncomfortable. Every EULA for every piece of software I’ve ever seen had clauses which allowed unilateral decision-making which could lead to a revocation of the license with no recourse from the other party. I’ll give you half a guess as to which side the clauses granted this power to. Please note that the SDMB’s license has similar caveats. The administration reserves the right to terminate your access at any time for any, or no, reason whatsoever. In their sole judgement and you are allowed no concessions(a goodbye post, notice, etc). This is absolutely standard operating procedure in the vast majority of the contracts between companies and individuals. Especially in the information technology sector. Personally I think it sucks, and I have a deep-seated loathing for any contract which is not open to negotiation by both parties. When I first signed my rental lease for the house I’m in right now the landlord handed over a boilerplate lease agreement he downloaded from some legal resource. I reviewed it and requested some changes. Being a fair person, he agreed and the corrections were made as appropriate. We also have a supplemental agreement which we negotiated as well. This is how contract negotiations for goods and services should work. This stupid click-through crap is going to have some serious repercussions as people begin to learn exactly how inequitable these “contracts” actually are. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/30 "2003-09-23T14:56:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stpauler \* > \*\*(And if anybody else experiences this, let me know. \*\* I haven’t noticed a change in the lights, but yes. For the past several weeks it’s been down for 5-10 minutes at a time, many many times per day. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/31 "2003-09-23T15:01:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stpauler \* > \*\*(And if anybody else experiences this, let me know. \*\* I haven’t noticed a change in the lights, but yes. For the past several weeks it’s been down for 5-10 minutes at a time, many many times per day. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/32 "2003-09-23T15:19:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*You must be awfully uncomfortable. Every EULA for every piece of software I’ve ever seen had clauses which allowed unilateral decision-making which could lead to a revocation of the license with no recourse from the other party. I’ll give you half a guess as to which side the clauses granted this power to. Please note that the SDMB’s license has similar caveats. The administration reserves the right to terminate your access at any time for any, or no, reason whatsoever. In their sole judgement and you are allowed no concessions(a goodbye post, notice, etc). > > This is absolutely standard operating procedure in the vast majority of the contracts between companies and individuals. Especially in the information technology sector. > \*\* I realize this is SOP. I’m sure that if i looked in the fine print of my Verizon DSL agreement, it would say that they can terminate my contract at any time. But it doesn’t mean that i have to like it. Like you, i think it sucks. Also, i’m much more tolerant of such things when they apply to a free site like SDMB. I mean, i’m paying nothing for using the service, the owners of the site are making nothing from my membership, and one assumes than anyone giving such a service away for nothing is generally a pretty upstanding, good-faith type of person. But when one pays a company for a specific service, and the company reserves the right to cancel the contract for no reason except its own, and wthout the possible reasons being clearly enumerated in the agreement, i think that sucks. With regard to software, i did read somewhere on these boards the other day (sorry, no link) that no court has yet found click-through EULAs to be valid and enforceable legal documents. Does anytone know whether or not this is true? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/33 "2003-09-23T15:21:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stpauler \* > \*\*I actually still am an AOL subscriber because Comcast goes down from time to time with no explanation. > > (And if anybody else experiences this, let me know.) \*\* I abandoned AOL for Comcast 10 months ago. Never had a problem, other than having to reset the connection whenever the power goes out. ---
**Author:** ![siberia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/siberia/32/9129_2.png) [@siberia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/siberia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/34 "2003-09-23T15:54:13Z")
There’s a thread about this at [DSL Reports – Comcast Account Suspended for going over “limit”](http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7970996~root=comcast~mode=flat). It just doesn’t seem right. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/35 "2003-09-23T16:27:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **But when one pays a company for a specific service, and the company reserves the right to cancel the contract for no reason except its own, and wthout the possible reasons being clearly enumerated in the agreement, i think that sucks.** Well, that depends on what one considers “clearly enumerated”. For instance, [the Verizon DSL Terms of Service](http://www2.verizon.net/policies/tos.asp) have very vague terms attached to their unilateral action sections. > [@](#): > > 1. Verizon reserves the right to deny Service to you, or immediately to terminate your Service for material breach, if your use of the Service or your use of an alias or the aliases of additional users on your account, whether explicitly or implicitly, and in the sole discretion of Verizon: (a) is obscene, indecent, pornographic, sadistic, cruel or racist in nature, or of a sexually explicit or graphic nature; (b) espouses, promotes or incites bigotry, hatred or racism; © might be legally actionable for any reason, (d) is objectionable for any reason, or (e) in any manner violates the terms of this Acceptable Use Policy. Now, name me a use of the Internet which could NOT be covered by this particular clause. Explicitly OR implicitly, in their sole discretion. This also gives them the right to terminate your service if your machine gets hacked and the hacker uses it to do bad things. Kick the hacker off and secure your machine so he’s doing doing bad things anymore? Tough tittie. Someone breaks into your house and downloads the Tonya Harding wedding night video? Your service can be terminated. It comes down to trust. They hold all the cards and the customer holds none. There are thousands of lines to hold a customer’s feet to the fire if they do anything the company feels is out of line, but who protects the customer? Reimbursement for dropped connections or crappy service? Well, they disclaim that as well. > [@](#): > > 16.3 VERIZON DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE SERVICE OR EQUIPMENT PROVIDED BY VERIZON WILL PERFORM AT A PARTICULAR SPEED, BANDWIDTH OR DATA THROUGHPUT RATE, OR WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, ERROR-FREE, SECURE, OR FREE OF VIRUSES, WORMS, OR THE LIKE. VERIZON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR LOSS OF YOUR DATA, OR IF CHANGES IN OPERATION, PROCEDURES, OR SERVICES REQUIRE MODIFICATION OR ALTERATION OF YOUR EQUIPMENT, RENDER THE SAME OBSOLETE OR OTHERWISE AFFECT ITS PERFORMANCE. A contract is supposed to be binding in both directions. These kinds of contracts are a joke. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![pezpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@pezpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezpunk)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/36 "2003-09-23T17:20:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*A contract is supposed to be binding in both directions. These kinds of contracts are a joke. > \*\* Actually that isn’t a contract but rather the terms of service. There is no contract with Verizon. If you don’t follow the terms included in the TOS, Verizon can terminate their service. By the same token if Verizon does not provide the service promised, you can cancel and take your service to another provider since they do not require a commitment (no contract). As a side note in Verizon’s case they send the TOS in the install kit and give the customer ample time and chance to review them before service starts. If they don’t agree with them or feel that they cannot comply with them they probably should not continue service. Comcast apparently is pretty vague in their TOS but I can understand their stance. If this user is creating a signifigant slow down on their system it only seems fair to either disconnect him or charge him as a buisness customer. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/37 "2003-09-23T17:36:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stpauler \* > \*\*(And if anybody else experiences this, let me know. My cable internet’s modem will have the 4 light blaring and the fifth blinking to let me know it’s sending, receiving, online etc. If there’s no connection, it’ll just have the first 1 or 2 lights on or blinking like it’s trying to connect. This will happen from time to time and sometimes last a day or two. \*\* I don’t know what causes this problem, but I have the exact same problem with Comcast, and it has been getting more and more frequent. I don’t think it’s load based, because I frequently lose connectivity at odd times like 1 am. It’s getting very frustrating and comcast never offers up an explaination or apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/38 "2003-09-23T18:40:25Z")
**pezpunk** , I understand that in the legal sense, a TOS is not a contract. What I dispute is that these kinds of distinctions are actually differences. What you have is a document defining the relationship between two parties. What each should expect from another. Call it a TOS, call it a EULA, call it Betty as far as I care. Deliniate, if it isn’t too much trouble, the real, practical difference. A difference that can be percieved by a layman without handholding from a legal professional. It details the behavior expected from the client and deliniates the responsibilities and liabilities of the provider. Fits most of the common definitions of “contract” as far as I can tell. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![pezpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@pezpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezpunk)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/39 "2003-09-23T19:20:36Z")
Sorry **Mtgman** I didn’t mean to dispute the term “contract” but rather the idea that calling it a contract gives the sense that the customer is legally bound to Verizon. In other words your intially statement sounded to me to say customers can be screwed by the Verizon and have no recourse because they are legally bound. This is not the case. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197/40 "2003-09-23T19:32:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > **This also gives them the right to terminate your service if your machine gets hacked and the hacker uses it to do bad things.** Right. Road Runner threatened to kick my father off when he got infected by a particularily nasty virus (He was sending out copious amounts of Viagra knock-off e-mails). His only recourse was to fix the problem immediately (And they were helpfull, apparently) or lose his service. No if’s and’s or but’s. That’s kinda shaddy in my opinion, but not totally unacceptable. I mean, what do you expect them to do? At any rate, after reading through the thread on the DSL website, it appears this guy was indeed hogging up huge amounts of bandwidth. I saw a couple of estimates that put it at nearly 200-300 gigs a month. That’s a helluva lot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comcast-broadband-to-suspend-heavy-users-but-wont-say-how-much-you-can-use/203197.md?page=3)