# "Come back to Africa..." Wade tells Haitians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312 "2010-01-17T13:57:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/21 "2010-01-17T16:34:01Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Resettling entire communities isn’t beyond our technological and logistical capacity, and we may as well start getting a bit of practice in, sooner, than later. Liberia: It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/22 "2010-01-17T17:09:04Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Liberia: It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time. This. Re-patriating an entire country due to national disasters is a logistical nightmare, not to mention completely ignoring the individuals who are actually affected by the situation. As far as Wade’s offer to the Haitians, I am sure a few will take him up on the offer, but again, the logistics of transportation and the prevalence of soul-crushing poverty in the country lead me to believe there will be few that have the means to do so, even if they were willing. Insofar as the U.S., our disaster relief efforts have been unorganized, bureaucratic nightmares and we need to figure out a way to make them more efficacious, on both a global and domestic level (FEMA is still running a complete clusterfuck of relief in the Gulf states). From what I understand, there’s been an amnesty proposals put forth for refugees to obtain Temporary Protected Status (great, now Office Space quotes are making me laugh while I think about the suffering of millions). Although this is a great idea in theory, these practices usually are carried out in a half-assed fashion, with no provisions in place to creating infrastructure in facilitating their return. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/23 "2010-01-17T17:16:56Z")
Senegal would do well to first end its emigration (the boatfuls that land in the Canaries for example). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/24 "2010-01-17T17:24:28Z")
> [@Daedelus](#): > > This. > > Re-patriating an entire country due to national disasters is a logistical nightmare, You mean more nightmarish than having to endure an avoidable natural disaster? Mankind has been relocating entire nations since time immemorial. Don’t tell me we aren’t better equipped for it now. If all planes stopped their business flights for one day you could shift the affected population in Haiti. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/25 "2010-01-17T17:35:05Z")
**mswas** ands **spoke-** , knock off the personal comments. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/26 "2010-01-17T17:41:51Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > You mean more nightmarish than having to endure an avoidable natural disaster? > > Mankind has been relocating entire nations since time immemorial. Don’t tell me we aren’t better equipped for it now. If all planes stopped their business flights for one day you could shift the affected population in Haiti. Re-patriating an entire country does nothing to deal with the actual contributors to the scale of the disaster. The lack of early-warning detection, the architectural issues that led to the collapse of so many buildings and loss of life, and the lack of infrastructure in place to get the resources amassed by relief efforts to those that are affected are more important than figuring out effective ways for one country to absorb the entire population of another. That’s not to say, however, that there doesn’t need to be efforts to ensure aid to refugees, but I don’t think you’re talking about refugee issues, but more-so the idea of the U.S. taking in the entire population of Haiti. Which, I find to be a completely absurd idea with no political or economic capital behind it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/27 "2010-01-17T17:42:50Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Bringing them to America to be a part of the permanent underclass, increasing crime and ethnic tensions in America seems like a good idea to you? Its working “great” with the Mexicans so far. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/28 "2010-01-17T17:47:33Z")
> [@Daedelus](#): > > Re-patriating an entire country does nothing to deal with the actual contributors to the scale of the disaster. The lack of early-warning detection, the architectural issues that led to the collapse of so many buildings and loss of life, and the lack of infrastructure in place to get the resources amassed by relief efforts to those that are affected are more important than figuring out effective ways for one country to absorb the entire population of another. Well it does something for those who are repatriated from a country that has basically been laid waste by poor environmental policy. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/29 "2010-01-17T18:02:09Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well it does something for those who are repatriated from a country that has basically been laid waste by poor environmental policy. I’m definitely not denying that the Haitian government was a mess. I’m merely arguing against the idea that re-patriation should not be at the forefront of the discussion, and there are many more viable means of addressing the issues around this and other disasters/disaster relief efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/30 "2010-01-18T00:36:30Z")
I find the idea interesting and hope 100,000 or more Haitians pursue it, just so I can see what’ll happen. I’m sure a lot of them will die horribly from something or other, but I’m still curious. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/31 "2010-01-18T00:42:18Z")
> [@Daedelus](#): > > I’m definitely not denying that the Haitian government was a mess. I’m merely arguing against the idea that re-patriation should not be at the forefront of the discussion, and there are many more viable means of addressing the issues around this and other disasters/disaster relief efforts. Yes, well, it’s not the forefront of the discussion. But if that is what Senegal can offer, then that’s fine. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I find the idea interesting and hope 100,000 or more Haitians pursue it, just so I can see what’ll happen. > > I’m sure a lot of them will die horribly from something or other, but I’m still curious. Perhaps, or maybe they’d do better, because it will engage the same selection bias that built America. Only those plucky enough to get to Senegal will be able to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/32 "2010-01-18T00:49:10Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Basing it off population density is one thing, but can this guy sign off a chunk of his country to a group of foreign settlers. Where will he get the land? Whose community will they be uprooting or co-habitating with? You really can’t dump an unnamed amount of Haitians into Senegal without there being repercussions. I’m sure the president of Senegal is very concerned about legal formalities, fair treatment of his political and ethnic enemies, and realistic long-term planning. I know that I associate all of those things with African politics. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/33 "2010-01-18T01:27:17Z")
Hm. Except for back when South Africa (under Apartheid) was soliciting whites to come (and increase the white percentage of the population), this is the first time I have ever heard of any post-colonial African nation asking for immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/34 "2010-01-18T03:14:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I find the idea interesting and hope 100,000 or more Haitians pursue it, just so I can see what’ll happen. > > I’m sure a lot of them will die horribly from something or other, but I’m still curious. On the next episode of _House, PhD Poli Sci_… ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/35 "2010-01-18T05:21:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if some Haitians took up the offer. It can’t be worse than Haiti. That’s what I was thinking. Seems like a pretty generous offer to me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/36 "2010-01-18T06:24:27Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > > [@mswas](#): > > > > I wouldn’t be surprised if some Haitians took up the offer. It can’t be worse than Haiti. > > That’s what I was thinking. Seems like a pretty generous offer to me. Thus furthering Hait’s slide into hell. The folks who are likely to actually hear about the offer and have the wherewithal to accept it are more likely to be among the miniscule number of wealthy or excruciatingly tiny number of middle class, thus reducing further the number of people in Haiti who are even capable of providing any support for the country as a whole. Is Wade planning to find translators for his proposals who can wander the countryside announcing it to the 85 - 90% of the population who speak Creole with no understanding of French because only half the population can read, (in either language), and newspapers are more than a bit rare? I would not condemn a Haitian of the middle class who chose to escape so that his or her children would not be trapped in that situation, but the reality is that their departure will further doom the country. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/37 "2010-01-18T10:57:24Z")
Right, because it is completely impossible for a poor person to struggle up into the middle class. :rolleyes: Seeing as it is the wealthy and to a lesser extent the middle class who perpetuate the greed and corruption that keeps the country in such a crappy state maybe having them leave and go elsewhere would give some other Haitians a chance to pull themselves up out of the mire and find new ways to do things. Anyhow, a lot of that country’s current problems are linked to just too many people in too small an area. I’d rather see the population emigrate than be wiped out by some natural disaster though clearly both things happen there. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/38 "2010-01-18T14:44:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Right, because it is completely impossible for a poor person to struggle up into the middle class. :rolleyes: In the case where the removal of the miniscule middle class would mean the removal of everyone with an education, along with nearly all the wealth and resources, there would be no middle class into which to move. I am not arguing against the proposal, (because I certainly have no clear solution and helping some people escape seems better than condemning all). I am simply noting the Law of Unintended Consequences, where a nice gesture could cause further problems. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/39 "2010-01-18T14:58:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Thus furthering Hait’s slide into hell. > > The folks who are likely to actually hear about the offer and have the wherewithal to accept it are more likely to be among the miniscule number of wealthy or excruciatingly tiny number of middle class, thus reducing further the number of people in Haiti who are even capable of providing any support for the country as a whole. > > Is Wade planning to find translators for his proposals who can wander the countryside announcing it to the 85 - 90% of the population who speak Creole with no understanding of French because only half the population can read, (in either language), and newspapers are more than a bit rare? > > I would not condemn a Haitian of the middle class who chose to escape so that his or her children would not be trapped in that situation, but the reality is that their departure will further doom the country. Haiti cannot be more doomed than it already is. Haiti is doomed, period. And it’s possible that people might bring their whole clan out. Oftentimes having a robust diaspora can help the people in the country too, as people from outside of the country work with those that were left behind. But the fact of the matter is that Haiti is ravaged, not by an Earthquake but by the illiteracy and ignorance of its own populace. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312/40 "2010-01-18T15:38:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > In the case where the removal of the miniscule middle class would mean the removal of everyone with an education, along with nearly all the wealth and resources, there would be no middle class into which to move. But those people left in Haiti won’t be entirely abandoned. There are aid agencies there now, and there will continue to be, which will enable at least some of them to get an education and thereby better themselves. No one should be forced to leave, and no one should be forced to stay, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-back-to-africa-wade-tells-haitians/525312.md?page=3)