# Come bitch about US bombing raids, not limited to: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden,Tokyo **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371 "2003-02-16T03:24:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/1 "2003-02-16T03:24:22Z")
So you don’t have to do it _on every other_ perfectly good thread. Look, every time you mention Hiroshima or Nagasaki that means someone has to go link to the many old threads, patiently point out that it is a complex topic in and of itself, or go completely mad. Why mad? Because those examples happened 58 years ago at the earliest. We don’t do things that way any more. Ferchrisakes, we don’t even _declare_ war any more. That stopped after WWII also. What real war plan involves carpet bombing Baghdad? If the US does that it will face international condemnation like it has never seen - and that’s saying something. But, when in the process of trying to miss civilian areas a couple JDAMS go off target, someone will trumpet the ‘proof’ that the US ‘carpet’ bombs civilian targets on purpose. I’d love to see one example of modern carpet bombing - post Vietnam - that was not directed at an enemy troop concentration outside a city. That we could debate. Fact: during the Gulf War every strike in Baghdad was flown by a [F-117 with guided munitions or was carried out by cruise missile](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/weapons/stealth.html). > [@](#): > > Low observability made possible direct strikes at the heart of the Iraqi air defense system at the very outset of the war. In the past, air forces fought through elaborate defenses and accepted losses on their way to the target or rolled those defenses back. In the Gulf War, the Coalition could strike Iraqi air defenses immediately, and they never recovered from these initial, stunning blows.\*\* With the combination of stealth and accuracy possessed by the F-117 and cruise missiles, these two platforms carried out all attacks against downtown Baghdad\*\*; the F-117 operated at night and the TLAMs during the day. Given the American sensitivity to casualties–our own and Iraqi civilians–they were ideal weapon systems for attacking targets in the heart of a heavily defended, heavily populated city. Moreover, the F-117 had a psychological utility that was probably shared only by the B-52. Both were aircraft of a kind that only a super-power could have, and both could deliver destruction with no advanced warning–small wonder, then, that both figured prominently in psychological operations pamphlets that were showered upon Iraqi troops.[bolding mine] OK, if we launch a huge number of cruise missiles can we agree that that is not “carpet bombing”? I figure someone will say “what’s the difference?” The ability to hit military targets is the difference. Even the much hyped campaign (Awe and Wonder?) that supposedly is directed at Baghdad, if I’m guessing correctly, is targeted at the Special Republican Guard - keeper of the WMDs. If what I’ve heard is true, the SRG is planning to hide in and around Baghdad to maximize civilian casualties. Supposedly it consists of cruise missile strikes at military targets. Of course, if I’m wrong, I’ll be ashamed of my nation for carpet bombing Baghdad. I just wish some of you psychics would come back and apologize when you are proven wrong. Remember how Kabul was going to be pulverized? Chomsky said we were trying to starve millions. Where are the apologies for those epic slanders? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/2 "2003-02-16T04:01:36Z")
The [most recent example](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=163192&perpage=50&pagenumber=1) begins on page 3 of this thread. It happens pretty frequently. How a bombing over a half century ago relates to an insult hurled at a modern internet poster is beyond me. I meant “Shock and Awe” Awe and Wonder would be a good name for a documentary about space or something. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/3 "2003-02-16T04:27:07Z")
So you are saying there were no civillians killed in Bagdad? That every bomb landed excactly where it was supposed to? No collateral damage? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/4 "2003-02-16T04:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > So you are saying there were no civillians killed in Bagdad? That every bomb landed excactly where it was supposed to? No collateral damage? No, I’m saying what I said in the OP. We don’t carpet bomb urban areas. We have not carpet bombed a big city since WWII. We have not used nuclear weapons in 58 years, don’t bring up Hiroshima as an example of modern US bombing tactics. To directly answer your question, no, there _were_ civilians killed in Baghdad. I remember one incident in particular, a bunker with civilians in it that supposedly housed the military sometimes. Anyway, it was hit full of civilians. This was a horrible tragedy. It does not mean that the US targets civilians as a matter of course. Also, no, weapons fly off course. Some of the cruise missiles that hit civilian areas around Baghdad were those hit with ground fire. To me, the real tragedies occur when the US military really screws up - ignores a no fire suggestion and hits Canadians, hits a wedding party, etc. I don’t want to diminish any targets that we have hit, because that is how you learn to not make the same mistakes. But, please, do not compare the accidental bombing of a wedding party with the fire bombing of Tokyo or the two raids on Dresden. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/5 "2003-02-16T05:00:19Z")
I agree about comparing the wedding and Dresden and Tokyo. The wedding was an accident. Dresden and Tokyo was deliberatly targetting civilians. The history of the US targetting civilians goes back to at least the War of Northern Agression when Sherman shelled Atlanta. Lets not even get into the Indian Wars. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/6 "2003-02-16T05:32:20Z")
What he’s saying is to pull your head out and realize that during the waning days of World War II, nobody had the type of guided munitions we have today. I was about to ask if that’s so hard for you to understand until I realized that, yes, it is that hard for you to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/7 "2003-02-16T05:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > What real war plan involves carpet bombing Baghdad? Can you assure me that, if we end up bombing Baghdad, that absolutely no carpets will be damaged? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/8 "2003-02-16T05:45:59Z")
Yes, **Monty** , that is a big part of it. Also, WWII was an example of [Total War](http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/392/5690). > [@](#): > > Clausewitz first articulated the concept of “total war.” For many centuries in Europe, wars were fought by forces generally far from population centers. It is not that civilian populations were safe from abuse from warring armies, but total war, in the Clausewitzian vision, pitted entire societies against one another. All an enemy’s territory, property, and citizens were potential targets. Indeed, the more ruthless, merciless and complete an army’s tactics, the more likely Clausewitz believed their victory to be. > Clausewitz’s ruthlessness and seemingly cavalier prescription is captured in his oft-cited observation that “war is nothing but a continuation of political intercourse with the admixture of different means.” World Wars I and II are the most conspicuous examples of total war, the total mobilization of one society against another other. The vanquished society in a total war suffers total cultural collapse. All the major powers launched questionable attacks on urban areas in WWII. In particular the British on Germany and the US on the Japanese. Element of revenge? Hard not to believe that was some of what was going on. ## **Miller** , of course there will be huge collateral carpet damage in any bombing of Baghdad. I think that is a tragic certainty. I’m not joking about civilian casualties by the way. In fact, there are casualties from leaving Saddam in power. How many people does he allow to starve every year because he chooses not to spend the money in areas with groups that oppose him? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/9 "2003-02-16T05:46:22Z")
What if the U.S. winds up catapulting bodies of people who died from disease into Baghdad to spread plague? That’s barbaric! ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/10 "2003-02-16T05:47:03Z")
**Monty** …I suggest you go read about the firebombing of Tokyo. About how they used fire bombs because the houses were made of wood. They intended to set the town on fire civilians be damned. They weren’t targetting military targets in downtown Tokyo. They were terrorizing the civilian populace. Terrorize them enough and perhaps they will bring the government down. You can go bury your head in the sand and pretend we didn’t do it. But the fact is we did. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/11 "2003-02-16T05:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\ ***Monty** …I suggest you go read about the firebombing of Tokyo. About how they used fire bombs because the houses were made of wood. They intended to set the town on fire civilians be damned. They weren’t targetting military targets in downtown Tokyo. They were terrorizing the civilian populace. Terrorize them enough and perhaps they will bring the government down. You can go bury your head in the sand and pretend we didn’t do it. But the fact is we did. \*\* And this has fuck all to do with now. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/12 "2003-02-16T05:50:36Z")
Oh, damn, I should have mentioned the Germans terrorizing London. Sorry about that one. I did not mean to make Britan sound like the aggressor in WWII. At the _end of the war_ the US and Britan made some bad calls regarding civilian areas, IMO. Particularly Nagasaki and Dresden. To me those are the worst examples of unnecessary bombing of civilian areas - but in the heat and twisted morality of a total war. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/13 "2003-02-16T06:18:29Z")
This gives us all a chance to recall some of the lessons of history. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Reeder** > **Monty** …I suggest you go read about the firebombing of Tokyo. About how they used fire bombs because the houses were made of wood. They intended to set the town on fire civilians be damned. They weren’t targetting military targets in downtown Tokyo. They were terrorizing the civilian populace. Terrorize them enough and perhaps they will bring the government down. You can go bury your head in the sand and pretend we didn’t do it. But the fact is we did. > [@](#): > > Weirdave: And this has fuck all to do with now. This is the perfect time to vent any greivance about the fire bombing of Tokyo. I know that some people might argue it was unnecessary. Of course, [strategic bombing](http://www.ieer.org/comments/bombing.html) means bombing where people work. Civilian areas. **Strategic Bombing by Jack Colhoun Appendix A in Arjun Makhijani and John Kelly, Target Japan: The Decision to Bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, July 1985. Published as a book in Japanese under the title, Why Japan? (Kyoikusha: Tokyo, 1985)** > [@](#): > > …At the start of World War II, Britain and Nazi Germany were reluctant to launch major air raids against each other’s cities. But before long both countries authorized strategic air raids against each other’s urban areas. Gradually restrictions on the aerial bombardment of civilian populations were totally ignored by the combatants as each side vowed to retaliate for previous air strikes against its cities by the enemy. > > U.S. and British bombing raids over Germany had different functions in the combined air war against Germany. The role of the British Royal Air Forces, which it adopted as its strategy, was predicated on “area bombing” - that is, large scale bombing of industrial and residential areas in order to break the morale of the German people by terrorizing them. The U.S. Army Air Forces once claimed that U.S. strategy was not based on destroying civilian populations even if it had that as the result. > > “The leaders of the AAF had long been on record in opposition to indiscriminate attacks on civilians. If bombardiers were sometimes less circumspect in this manner, or if Germans found it hard to differentiate between spillage and terror bombing, it nevertheless seemed important during these pre-Hiroshima months not to deviate from the state policy of attacking legitimate military objectives.” (9) > > The U.S. Army Air Forces explained the British preference for area bombing of Germany - “proposals to bomb Germany so terrifyingly that it would sue for peace” - on the grounds of the British revenge motive: “It is not surprising that proposals for all-out attacks on Berlin, the Ruhr or other critical areas of Germany always seemed to come from the British, who had undergone the German air raids of 1940-41 and were not [1944] enduring the punishment of V-1’s and V-2’s [Germany rockets].” (10) At times the U.S. Army Air Forces even claimed to have opposed “proposals frankly aimed at breaking the morale of the Germany people” because of “the moral issue involved.” (11) Elsewhere, however, the Army Air Forces admitted that such statements “were meant strictly for home consumption.” (12) > > The differences between the U.S. and British Air Forces were not based on morality. Initially the “general conclusion reached [by the U.S.] was that bombing of this sort [area bombing] while effective enough in producing general damage, was an unreliable and costly way of paralyzing the enemy’s war machine and that, in comparison, precision bombing of a specific phase of the enemy’s war economy according to a definite but flexible strategic plan afforded the most economical means of effecting a decisive concentration of bombardment.” (13) > > The combined bomber offensive of the U.S. and Britain included continuous day and night bombing attacks against Germany. The U.S. daytime precision bombardment was designed to hit specific industrial targets which couldn’t be detected at night. The British flew night-time area bombing raids aimed at destroying entire urban areas associated with industrial or transportation targets. > > Area bombing, and more specifically targeted attacks were calculated to complement each other. “By deploying both it would be possible to bring continuous 24-hour pressure to bear on the enemy, thus preventing his defenses from relaxing. It would also be possible, in many cases, for the AAF to locate difficult targets and mark them by fire resulting from the preliminary bombing, and so make it feasible for the RAF to complete the job at night.” (14) > > The U.S. Army Air Forces had, in fact, “from the first been interested in the possibilities of incendiary attacks against the crowded and inflammable cities of Japan…” (15) > > By early 1945 the U.S.-British arguments over terror bombing stopped - even when “strictly for home consumption.” First came the Allied fire bombing of Dresden. Then the U.S. shifted its strategy in Japan to include fire bombing on a vast scale. > > Brigadier General Haywood Hansell, who had directed the strategic bombing attacks until mid-January 1945, did not agree with the fire bombing approach. He insisted that “precision bombing” be continued. On January 20, 1945, Hansell was replaced by LeMay. “Perhaps in the last analysis Hansell’s chief fault was in adhering too strictly to the ‘book’ - to doctrines of precision bombardment which he helped formulate-in the face of growing interest in area incendiary bombing evinced by [General Henry] Arnold [Chief of the Army Air Forces].” (16) > > The idea was to prove that incendiary bombing and destruction on a vast scale could be the decisive aspect in the final results of the Pacific War. > > U.S. air war strategists believed that fire bombing might be particularly effective against Japan because “[t]housands of small households or ‘shadow’ industries were jammed into the metropolitan sectors. Thirty percent of the nation’s total labor force worked in factories employing 30 persons or less. Most of these home factories were engaged in war production, were so widely scattered and lightly built as to be unsatisfactory pinpoint bombing targets-and were highly vulnerable to attack by fire. Precision bombing could still serve a limited purpose against isolated key war plants and against major fire-resistant plants in the urban areas; but for real results, intensive use of incendiary bombs would be the answer.” (17) > > The U.S. bombing strategy of 1942-44 against Japan was expanded in a big way in March 1945, beginning with the fire bombing of Tokyo on March 9 and 10, 1945. The area of Tokyo selected was four miles by three miles, a zone with a civilian population density of 103,000 per square mile. A high concentration of incendiary bombs dropped from the huge U.S. B-29 Superfortresses ignited a series of fires, fanned by brisk winds, which raged out of control within half an hour, the result of which was that more than 15 square miles of Tokyo was burned out. About 100,000 men, women and children were killed and another 100,000 people were made homeless. According to the U.S. Army Air Forces: “No other air attack of the war, either in Japan or Europe, was so destructive of life and property.” (18) (19) > > “With casualties of this order,” Clark wrote of the March 9-10 fire bombing of Tokyo, “it seemed inevitable that Japan could be burned into capitulation. The bomber, surely, might here do what it had failed to do against Germany: Eliminate the need for ground invasion.” (20) > > Within 48 hours of the U.S. fire bombing of Tokyo, LeMay’s B-29 bombers launched incendiary attacks against Kobe, Nagoya, and Osaka. Over a 10 day period, 9,373 tons of bombs were dropped and 31 square miles of these cities were burned out. More fire bomb raids were carried out on Tokyo, and by the end of May 1945, 56 square miles of Tokyo had been reduced to ashes… (21) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/14 "2003-02-16T06:20:23Z")
Dave: Not a fucking thing, of course. The only reason he brings it up is because he pretends it’s proof that the United States, and in particular our military, are just fucking scum of the Earth and are the worst criminals ever known to the Universe. Didn’t you notice how he didn’t say jack about what noncombatant ships & neutral nations ships were sunk, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/15 "2003-02-16T06:23:34Z")
Yes, I think I read something about that, _back when I was getting my degree in U.S. military history_. 😉 I still don’t see what possible relevance it has on our strategies in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/16 "2003-02-16T06:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I still don’t see what possible relevance it has on our strategies in Iraq. Exactly. I don’t see us deciding to use B-52s at altitude to carve huge swaths through Baghdad. If we do, let me abhor it in advance. Of couse, you mention the catapulted plague victims. I hope Saddam does not hear that one. If you majored in military history you must see the wonderful relevance of my last quote.😃 You cannot examine an air raid in a total war in a historical vacuum. Four years of war changes the way people think. I think we will do everything we can to make any strikes in Iraq as unlike WWII as possible. But, anyone, step right up and bitch away. I will agree with you on this thread, and this thread only. I’ll try to remember to save the link with all my cites about the varous bombings for future reference. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/17 "2003-02-16T06:39:03Z")
It makes my skin crawl when I see this brought up again and again. I’m going to put this out here for the third time. THE U.S. MILITARY DOES NOT TARGET CIVILIANS. Have we in the past? Yes. This is because warfare was a different beast decades ago. Will civilians die if we invade Iraq? Almost definitely. But this will be due to collateral damage and/or Saddam’s use of civilians as human shields. Will we target civilians in any way during an Iraq campaign? No. How do I know this? “Trust me, I know” is about all I can say without getting in any trouble. Generally speaking, collateral damage is a huge and sensitive issue when it comes to kinetic targets, and every effort is made to keep the effects to the general populace to a minimum. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/18 "2003-02-16T07:59:03Z")
Reeder needs to remember that no job is too hard for the person who does not have to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/19 "2003-02-16T15:51:17Z")
Gus: That comment is totally irrelevant to what’s being discussed. Whether it’s difficult or not isn’t the issue. After all, it’s not all that hard to turn two sets of keys. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371/20 "2003-02-16T19:48:18Z")
Here’s one of the offending threads: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=162587](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=162587) The OP seems to believe that the US strategy is to massacre the population of Baghdad to force the Iraq military to surrender. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-bitch-about-us-bombing-raids-not-limited-to-hiroshima-nagasaki-dresden-tokyo/155371.md?page=2)