# Come to think of it, why should the U.S. want to preserve Iraq as a united state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519 "2007-04-10T18:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/1 "2007-04-10T18:46:19Z")
It never made much sense as a state in the first place. Why not let Kurdistan and the Sunni Triangle secede? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/2 "2007-04-10T19:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It never made much sense as a state in the first place. Why not let Kurdistan and the Sunni Triangle secede? [/QUOTE] Well, the Sunni triangle is in the middle of Iraq, so if they did secede, you’d have them surrounded entirely by the Rest of Iraq. As for Kurdistan, first you’d have to deal with the Turkey problem. Secondly, what would you do with Mosul? ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/3 "2007-04-10T19:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It never made much sense as a state in the first place. Why not let Kurdistan and the Sunni Triangle secede? [/QUOTE] Because if they splinter into a half dozen factions we’ll be stuck negotiating petroleum deals with each faction, assuming that we are invited to the bargaining table at all. A unified Iraqi state means we get first option and can make a better long-term arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/4 "2007-04-10T20:44:23Z")
Variety of reasons. As mentioned above, the issue with Turkey and the Kurds, for instance. But I think the committment derives more from a delusion than an intent. The Bushiviks thought they would simply pop off Saddam, install Chalabi, and Iraq would go on rather as before, but with a decidedly more friendly foreign policy. This is more in line with their myth that they were simply removing a dangerous man from a essentially friendly place: the Iraqis are just like us, eager for the treats and goodies of WestCiv, etc. It fosters the myth of minimum disruption: no new UN seats needed for seperate entities, no need for seperate negotiations, a geopolitical surgical strike, neat quick and over. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/5 "2007-04-10T22:28:01Z")
I think you’ve asked questions similar to this before…just using different words. I don’t have time though to go back and look. Assuming I’m right though, did you just not like the earlier answers? 😛 > [@](#): > > Come to think of it, why should the U.S. want to preserve Iraq as a united state? Why SHOULDN’T the US be interested in preserving a unified Iraqi state…as opposed to a whole lot of little splinter statelets? Why would a splintered Iraq be preferable to a unified Iraq from the US’s perspective? For that matter I’ll ask what I asked in the last thread of this type I recall…why do you suppose that the majority of IRAQI’S want a fragemented Iraq? Leaving aside the Kurds, do you have any evidence that anyone else really wants a splintered state? > [@](#): > > It never made much sense as a state in the first place. Why not let Kurdistan and the Sunni Triangle secede? Because the Turks would go nuts if we helped bring about an independent Kurdistan (as other have said…and as was said the last time you asked this 😉 ), which I doubt would be in the US’s best interest. As for the Sunni Triangle seceding…I seriously doubt this would be desire-able even for the Sunni (since they would be cut out of the lions share of that oil stuff). Again…do you have any evidence that the Sunni WANT such a division (I’m talking about the majority of Sunni btw…not the odd nutball)? -XT ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/6 "2007-04-11T01:38:03Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It never made much sense as a state in the first place. Why not let Kurdistan and the Sunni Triangle secede? [/QUOTE] There aren’t any particularly neat or rational borders between the groups that can be used without substantial ethnic . . . readjustments. There are a number of minor minorities (Turkmen, Chaldassyrians, etc) that would get stuck in one rump nation-state or another. The division would create three countries with legitimate grievances and irredentist dreams. The Sunnis don’t necessarily want to secede. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/7 "2007-04-11T01:39:00Z")
[QUOTE=MMI] There aren’t any particularly neat or rational borders between the groups that can be used without substantial ethnic . . . readjustments. [/QUOTE] Those readjustments are already in progress. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2007, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/8 "2007-04-11T08:03:40Z")
The Kurds could be a very real problem with Turkey. Partition would very likely leave Baghdad with no oil - hence no income. I can see a very good case for ‘Federating’ Iraq - however what happens really depends on the Iraqis - I can’t see anyone imposing a solution on them ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/9 "2007-04-12T00:06:27Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Those readjustments are already in progress. [/QUOTE] Okay. I guess once ongoing and future humanitarian catastrophes are off the table as a downside, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/10 "2007-04-12T00:20:39Z")
**BrainGlutton** , you monster! (Thanks, **MMI** , I _had_ been thinking of him as a pretty decent sort.) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/11 "2007-04-12T00:29:32Z")
And noting that ‘readjustements’ are a currently occurring event, rather than being merely part of some dimissable and ignorable partition scheme is bad…how? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/12 "2007-04-12T02:11:23Z")
I think \*\*xtisme \*\* hit the nail on the head. First, Turkey (one of our few Muslim ‘allies’) would go apeshit if there were an independent Kurdistan, in part b/c this would encourage the Kurds in eastern Turkey to be more vocal in agitating for eastern Turkey to secede and become part of a unified Kurdistan. The so-called ‘Kurdish problem’ has vexed Turkey for years; having an independent Kurdistan right next door would just make it exponentially worse for the Turks. Second, it is not in the Sunnis’ interest to secede, b/c the Sunni parts of Iraq are poor in oil and other natural resources. The only group it would benefit is the Shi’ites (and it wouldn’t all be sunshine and roses for them, either). Besides, the divisions aren’t strict–you would still have minority pockets in each region, and those minorities would probably be treated like total crap. For a historical precedent, even the creation of Pakistan left tons of Muslims behind in India, and Muslims and Hindus in India frequently clash in bloody, murderous ways. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/13 "2007-04-12T07:44:09Z")
Actually I read that there are more Moslems in India than there are in Pakistan. Further investigation shows that this does not seem the case, which is odd as the writer was pretty reliable. [https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html](https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html) Hindu 80.5%, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1% (2001 census) Population: 1,095,351,995 (July 2006 est.) eg: 146,777,167 Moslems in India [https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pk.html](https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pk.html) Population: 165,803,560 (July 2006 est.) Religions: Muslim 97% (Sunni 77%, Shi’a 20%), other (includes Christian and Hindu) 3% Realistically partitioning tends to create problems, cross migrations have been pretty unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/14 "2007-04-14T07:13:38Z")
You’re multiplying the Muslim percentage in India from 2001 with the Indian population figure from July 2006 to get something to compare to the Pakistan Muslim population from July 2006… that isn’t necessarily a reasonable thing to do. At any rate, the numbers you get are relatively close, so a different calculation (with all the numbers from the same year) might well, at some point, have given more Muslims in India than in Pakistan. ETA: Actually, it isn’t even clear that the religion percentages for Pakistan are from July 2006. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-to-think-of-it-why-should-the-u-s-want-to-preserve-iraq-as-a-united-state/399519/15 "2007-04-14T07:59:11Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] You’re multiplying the Muslim percentage in India from 2001 with the Indian population figure from July 2006 to get something to compare to the Pakistan Muslim population from July 2006… that isn’t necessarily a reasonable thing to do. At any rate, the numbers you get are relatively close, so a different calculation (with all the numbers from the same year) might well, at some point, have given more Muslims in India than in Pakistan. [/QUOTE] Very true, actually I picked up the ‘factoid’ about 1999, it was in a leader article in the Hindustan Times that I found on the net. Of course those figures were estimated anyway 🙂