# "comedians", some tips on the black "be" thing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460 "2005-02-05T00:49:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/21 "2005-02-05T23:11:43Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > No, it means you are habitually a hater alway drinking the Haterade. Ok, but wouldn’t that would be “Why you _always_ be hatin?”. Meaning, your always hating. Hating now, and in the past. Where as, “Why you be hatin?”, works with the type that is hating right now. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/22 "2005-02-05T23:15:15Z")
It sounds analogous to the difference between “ser” and “estar” in Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/23 "2005-02-05T23:33:58Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Ok, but wouldn’t that would be “Why you _always_ be hatin?”. Meaning, your always hating. Hating now, and in the past. Where as, “Why you be hatin?”, works with the type that is hating right now. No, they’ve already told you what it means. “Why you be hating” and “Why you always be hating” mean the exact same thing. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/24 "2005-02-05T23:44:42Z")
That previous post wasn’t supposed to sound so scoldy. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/25 "2005-02-05T23:55:45Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Ok, but wouldn’t that would be “Why you _always_ be hatin?”. Meaning, your always hating. Hating now, and in the past. Where as, “Why you be hatin?”, works with the type that is hating right now. I think you’re missing the grammatical distinction here. One could say “Why you _always_ be hatin?” for emphasis, but the “always” is not needed to express the idea of a habitual state or action. It would be in many other English dialects, but in AAVE the use of the “be + verb” construction already makes that clear. To refer simply to the present act of hating, one would say “Why you hatin’?” ---
**Author:** ![violacrane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c57346/32.png) [@violacrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/violacrane)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/26 "2005-02-06T00:06:21Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > If you’re doing a jokey “lookit me, I’m speaking ebonics” bit, keep in mind that neglecting to conjugate the word “be” would be entirely inappropriate. You can’t just substitute “am”, “is”, or “are” for “be” and think that you have your comedic “hood” persona down pat. For instance, many of you might have your black guy say “I be angry, now”. However, that line would be better suited for a pirate than a modern day black person. > > You may be wondering what the point of getting all this right is when you’re just trying to make ridicule these people in the first place. Well, jokes that rely on the audience being ignorant make you look stupid when the audience _isn’t_ ignorant. If I were trying to do a funny “British guy” impression by saying “I want to lick a few fags up in’nit”, I’d look like an obnoxious idiot, since it’s obvious I have no idea what those Britishisms mean. I’m really trying to help you out. Imagine how annoying a person would be if they did that dumb British bit all the time and you’ll realize my pain. It’s so irritating - I’ve never, ever seen a wiseguy get the “be” thing right. Even respected, “hip” comedians get this wrong (per Jon Stewart in _America: The Book_, pg 24: “Fuck with a mutherfuckah’s tea and the shit **be** on!” Uh, no). > > Anyway, if you’re going to do a cliched “ebonics” bit, please, please try to understand the source material before you lampoon it. You’re spot on about the bad British thing, and I bet you are about the ebonics too. The only thing is that being from the UK when I hear (read) “I be doing something or other” what I hear is my Wiltshire Nana speaking “Now where’s my 'at – he be on the table.” The English language is a wonderful thing innit. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/27 "2005-02-06T00:11:07Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > That previous post wasn’t supposed to sound so scoldy. Why you hatin’? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/28 "2005-02-06T07:01:34Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > **pizzabrat** ’s description of the use of the “be” verb in AAVE is correct. This is one of the more interesting and elegant features of AAVE from a linguistic perspective, and is a standard textbook example of how AAVE varies from many other American English dialects. It _is_ the textbook example of the difference between AAVE and standard English, which got me thinking the other day. In standard English, we often make a distinction between habitual versus present by using progressive forms of the verb - “I live in Chicago” versus “I’m living in Chicago”. “I watch 24” or “I’m watching 24” - and so on. Isn’t this a parallel distinction? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/29 "2005-02-06T08:44:49Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > **pizzabrat** ’s description of the use of the “be” verb in AAVE is correct. This is one of the more interesting and elegant features of AAVE from a linguistic perspective, and is a standard textbook example of how AAVE varies from many other American English dialects. > > Although some dismiss AAVE as “sloppy English” or claim that it abandons all grammar, it does have its own rules and unique structures. People who don’t understand these rules cannot imitate the dialect correctly. Whether people feel it’s worthwhile to be able to imitate AAVE correctly is a personal call, but I can see poor imitations could get old real fast. Actually, I think genuine AAVE speakers are amazingly tolerant about this, especially considering how much flack they get for supposedly speaking English badly when they’re speaking their own dialect properly. > > It would mean something more like “Why do you persistently tend to hate in the same way that you are hating right now?” :eek: :eek: :eek: You mean to tell us that there is actually a TEXTBOOK on this? One that is used, studied and referred to in order to assist people in the correct use of ebonics? So much so that it has an acronym even? (pssst what is AAVE?). Also, I have the same question as **ParentalAdvisory** if be is supposed to mean some version of “as you are”, then why do we hear so many black youths use it in the present “why you be doing\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_”? Where \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ is something they are presently and phsycially engaged in. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/30 "2005-02-06T11:13:08Z")
Don’t be trying to tell me that “be” is only for present progressive. I be hearin’ it both ways too often to be believin’ that. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/31 "2005-02-06T11:17:25Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > You mean to tell us that there is actually a TEXTBOOK on this? One that is used, studied and referred to in order to assist people in the correct use of ebonics? So much so that it has an acronym even? (pssst what is AAVE?). “Ebonics” just turned into a media beat-up word a few years back after a hoo-hah about whether it ought to be taught in some Californian schools: the correct term is AAVE, which stands for African-American Vernacular English {previously referred to as BVE, and still may be, for all I know}. I don’t know {and doubt} if there are specific prescriptive textbooks on it in the sense that I think you mean, but it features prominently in most English Linguistics textbooks {descriptively, not prescriptively}: as a number of posters have pointed out, AAVE isn’t just debased Standard English, but has consistent and often elegant rules of its own which distinguish it from Standard English - it also isn’t homogeneous, and there are a number of regional sub-variants, which makes it an interesting field of study. If you’re interested in the topic, a good book to start with would be Peter Trudgill’s **Sociolinguistics: An Introduction To Language And Society**. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/32 "2005-02-06T15:19:42Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > :eek: :eek: :eek: > > You mean to tell us that there is actually a TEXTBOOK on this? One that is used, studied and referred to in order to assist people in the correct use of ebonics? So much so that it has an acronym even? (pssst what is AAVE?). > > Also, I have the same question as **ParentalAdvisory** if be is supposed to mean some version of “as you are”, then why do we hear so many black youths use it in the present “why you be doing\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_”? Where \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ is something they are presently and phsycially engaged in. At the predominately white university I attended, my dorm roommate took a course in Black English. And yes, she had a textbook. I’m not sure I understand your confusion. If someone is caught stealing cookies and it’s known that this is an old habit of hers, then “She be stealing cookies” would be an appropriate way to describe her. A friend might say to the thief, “Why you be doing that?” I don’t see that there are any laws broken by saying this. But even if there were, since when are youth are the users of correct grammar? 🙂 When I use AAVE, I have to admit that simply saying “She be \_\_\_” sounds empty to my ears. I usually say, “She be \_\_\_ all the time.” So in the above situation, when confronting the cookie thief, I would say, “Why do you **be** doing that all the time? Don’t you know you can’t **be** goin’ around, taking things that don’t belong to you?” (Note that I did not drop my verbs. Not all AAVE speakers do that. I only do it when I say “You so crazy”.) Sometimes when I’m playfully arguing with someone about music and they make the mistake of slamming one of my favorite singers, I will say, “Don’t **be** saying nothing bad about them!” I do it deliberately–yes I could say it the _proper_ way if I wanted to–but it sounds better to my ears (plus I know it will get laughs from people who aren’t using to hearing me that way). The standard English translation would be, “Don’t **ever** say anything bad about them!” So in this way, “be” means “in the habit of doing, now and in the future”. I don’t know what the textbooks say about this, but I’ve heard many speakers use this form. As in: “Don’t be rollin’ your eyes at me, girl!!” ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/33 "2005-02-06T15:25:35Z")
> [@NattoGuy](#): > > Don’t be trying to tell me that “be” is only for present progressive. I be hearin’ it both ways too often to be believin’ that. Ditto. Unless, of course, various black customers of mine are in fact expressing a perpetual state of desiring some wings and a Jack & Coke. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/34 "2005-02-06T15:48:13Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > You mean to tell us that there is actually a TEXTBOOK on this? One that is used, studied and referred to in order to assist people in the correct use of ebonics? So much so that it has an acronym even? (pssst what is AAVE?). Sorry for using the acronym without explaining. **Case Sensitive** already answered your questions, but yeah, it is African-American Vernacular English, formerly known as Black Vernacular English or Black English Vernacular (BVE and BEV). Those terms are no longer in current use, although you may still see them in older articles and books. There may be “How to Speak AAVE” textbooks out there, but I was referring to linguistic textbooks. Examining the differences between dialects and understanding how the different grammar structures work is an important part of the study of linguistics. > [@](#): > > \*Also, I have the same question as **ParentalAdvisory** if be is supposed to mean some version of “as you are”, then why do we hear so many black youths use it in the present “why you be doing\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_”? Where \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ is something they are presently and phsycially engaged in. \*The “be + verb” structure refers to habitual actions or states. It doesn’t matter whether the subject is presently engaged in that action or not, although the speaker is probably more likely to say something about it if they are. Would it seem strange to you if someone said “Why are you _always_ doing X?” to a person who was doing X at the moment? > [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Ditto. Unless, of course, various black customers of mine are in fact expressing a perpetual state of desiring some wings and a Jack & Coke. It is not difficult for me to believe that someone could habitually want wings with a Jack & Coke. I’m a creature of habit when it comes to my restaurant orders as well. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/35 "2005-02-06T15:51:08Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Ditto. Unless, of course, various black customers of mine are in fact expressing a perpetual state of desiring some wings and a Jack & Coke. Your black customers say “I be wanting some wings and a Jack & Coke” to you? I find that almost impossible to believe - it’s easier to believe that you’re remembering incorrectly since that’s how you thought AAVE worked until now. Purposefully listen again for an order like that next time you go to work and report back if you were sucessful in hearing one. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/36 "2005-02-06T15:54:20Z")
I was assumiog, in my above post, that **Roland** claims to get _orders_ from black customers in the form of “I be wanting some wings and Jack & Coke”. If they’re just generally conversing about wanting wings and Jack & Coke then that’s more believable. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/37 "2005-02-06T16:26:37Z")
Well, in truth, the orders that are phrased that way – and I have had a number of them; I pay attention to linguistic quirks as it’s a personal interest – do tend to be conversational in nature. A straight-up order for wings and a J&C will generally be “I have some wings an’ a Jack & Coke”. If they’re telling me why they came to the restaurant, though (and they often do; I find many drinkers are very conversational by nature), they’ll talk about how they “be wanting some wings an’ a Jack & Coke”. In this manner, I’ve heard it used in a standard past tense, past perfect, and a sort o convoluted present perfect (as in discussing the state of mind of a group wherein it is collectively decided that they want some wings and Jack & Cokes, culminating in "we be wantin’ some wings an’ Jack & Coke). So really, that isn’t terribly different from the usage you’re upholding, save for the minor difference of using it in reference to specific past states (which could be another category of usage entirely). So no, I haven’t specifically gotten an order that was phrased “I be wantin’ some wings an’ a Jack & Coke”. Sorry if my above post implied that. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/38 "2005-02-06T22:03:40Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Well, in truth, the orders that are phrased that way – and I have had a number of them; I pay attention to linguistic quirks as it’s a personal interest – do tend to be conversational in nature. A straight-up order for wings and a J&C will generally be “I have some wings an’ a Jack & Coke”. If they’re telling me why they came to the restaurant, though (and they often do; I find many drinkers are very conversational by nature), they’ll talk about how they “be wanting some wings an’ a Jack & Coke”. In this manner, I’ve heard it used in a standard past tense, past perfect, and a sort o convoluted present perfect (as in discussing the state of mind of a group wherein it is collectively decided that they want some wings and Jack & Cokes, culminating in "we be wantin’ some wings an’ Jack & Coke). So really, that isn’t terribly different from the usage you’re upholding, save for the minor difference of using it in reference to specific past states (which could be another category of usage entirely). > > So no, I haven’t specifically gotten an order that was phrased “I be wantin’ some wings an’ a Jack & Coke”. Sorry if my above post implied that. Sounds to me like the closest translation would be “I’ve been wanting/craving an order of wings and a Jack and Coke for a rather extended period of time before entering this establishment, and I continue to want them now.” As opposed to, “I entered this building with the intent of purchasing snack food items and alcoholic beverages, but without making a specific choice until after perusing your extensive selection of fried delicacies. After such perusal, I have come to the conclusion that what I’d really like to eat is some wings and a Jack and coke.” Pregnant chick be knowing about all day cravings! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/39 "2005-02-06T23:46:01Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > I was assumiog, in my above post, that **Roland** claims to get _orders_ from black customers in the form of “I be wanting some wings and Jack & Coke”. If they’re just generally conversing about wanting wings and Jack & Coke then that’s more believable. And of course there’s also the third possibility that both Roland and I correctly recounted real-life observations that disprove your assertion. It is at this point that I have to ask what qualifies you to speak with such certain authority on the subject. If you’re black, I’ll accept whatever you say without argument. If you’re a linguistics students, you best be prepared to get laughed at. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comedians-some-tips-on-the-black-be-thing/288460/40 "2005-02-06T23:55:51Z")
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