# Comey Memo: Trump Told Him - Shut Down Flynn Probe **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792 "2017-05-16T21:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/861 "2017-06-15T19:17:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by “leeway”. > > What I’m saying is that “Trump’s lack of experience and understanding of government and laws” means that his actions are not indicative of guilt as to the charge of collusion with the Russians as they might be if he was an ordinary politician and personality. So if the discussion is “did Trump collude with the Russians?” and someone is saying “he would never act the way he did if he wasn’t guilty of that charge” - IOW, the discussion in this thread - then the correct response is that this is an incorrect inference in the specific case of Trump. > > If the question is “should we have elected a guy with no experience with or understanding of politics or policy and the temperament of a spoiled 5 year old?” the answer is of course not. But that’s typically not the question being asked, because the election is behind us and it’s difficult to impeach a president simply for being unqualified. While there is some commentary on whether or not an innocent person would react in the way that trump has reacted, that is not the thrust of the argument. (Though I do think, IMHO, that his actions show a desperation to avoid consequence that the innocent do not usually display.) That is that trump may have acted illegally in covering up activities that may or may not have been illegal. And the defense of that, of ‘he doesn’t know any better than to obstruct justice\*’[sup]1[/sup] is what is being discussed. \*his actions did certainly obstruct justice, if nothing else, the chaos of an unplanned director transition will inevitably mean that some cases fall behind or get dropped. Whether it raises to the level of criminal behavior is a different question. [sup]1[/sup] I use " ’ " quotes, as no one has actually said those words, but that is how I see it summed up. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/862 "2017-06-15T19:22:17Z")
The context here is not what you consider “the thrust of the argument”. I brought up this particular argument in post #839, and it was in response to the two posts which preceded it. Both of these were addressing what you term “some commentary” and that’s what I was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/863 "2017-06-15T20:07:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Roughly half the public thinks Trump is guilty of criminal use of oxygen, just for breathing. Another rough half thinks he is in the midst of Making America Great Again, and any attacks are Fake News. So half don’t need convincing and the other half are impervious to reason. They’re looking at [money laundering](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/mueller-trump-special-counsel-investigation.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=2) and [obstruction](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/special-counsel-is-investigating-trump-for-possible-obstruction-of-justice/2017/06/14/9ce02506-5131-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html?utm_term=.7529700eabdf) before we ever get into the increasingly likely issue of collusion. The investigations are happening, and won’t be stopped until completed, and you seem to be going all in on the unlikely idea, despite all evidence to the contrary, that Trump has spent the last four decades being an honest businessman. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/864 "2017-06-15T20:11:59Z")
> [@](#): > > The investigations are happening, and won’t be stopped until completed I hope so. And while I do think Trump is guilty of obstruction and probably financial crimes, the investigation may come to a different result. As we all know, investigation \<\> guilt. Just ask the Clintons. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/865 "2017-06-15T20:29:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s probably overstating it a bit – those groups are probably about 40% and 30%, very roughly (based on trends for strong approval and strong disapproval) – the opinion of the other ~30% could very well be the difference between impeachment proceedings and continual defense of Trump on the part of his party comrades. For “strong support,” Trump is down to around 25%. [Cite](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/06/07/strong-approval-of-trump-is-fading-across-a-number-of-demographics/). That’s “crazification” levels of support. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/866 "2017-06-15T20:35:00Z")
For comparison, Nixon’s approval was 24% when he resigned. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/867 "2017-06-15T20:41:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > For comparison, Nixon’s approval was 24% when he resigned. To be clear, Trump is hanging in at 40% overall approval, but his “strong supporters” are gradually converting to more tepid supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/868 "2017-06-15T21:02:13Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I hope so. And while I do think Trump is guilty of obstruction and probably financial crimes, the investigation may come to a different result. As we all know, investigation \<\> guilt. Just ask the Clintons. Absolutely agree. But if I’m putting my chips on the table, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to have to take the Trump side of the question of whether his finances have been on the up and up. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/869 "2017-06-15T21:03:32Z")
Neither would I. But I wouldn’t think Mueller is going to investigate that. Unless it happens to relate to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/870 "2017-06-15T21:13:28Z")
When thinking about the “true” level of Its support, I recall that “Bernie BedHair town hall meeting with Trump supporters and the pencil necked weenie from MSNBC”. A consistent theme seemed to arise where…what, maybe half? Forty percent? Dunno…of the Trumpick participantz laid out that they wanted to throw a protest bomb, shake things up. And, most surprisingly, thinking that he wouldn’t do the ridiculous shit he claimed he was going to do, because the sane Republicans and Dems would stop him. So, they can throw a bomb that wouldn’t actually wreck shit. Makes sense, sorta kinda. I can relate to that sort of thinking, maybe because I come from people who marry their cousins. Question is, is that “support”? The other primary group didn’t have those kind of reservations, so calling them solid supporters is valid. Now, let us stipulate that this is even less than a snapshot. But I think it throw some light on the question of counting supporters and measuring support. Like most all of the really interesting questions, it doesn’t seem to have any one answer. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/871 "2017-06-15T21:30:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > When thinking about the “true” level of Its support, I recall that “Bernie BedHair town hall meeting with Trump supporters and the pencil necked weenie from MSNBC”. > A consistent theme seemed to arise where…what, maybe half? Forty percent? Dunno…of the Trumpick participantz laid out that they wanted to throw a protest bomb, shake things up. And, most surprisingly, thinking that he wouldn’t do the ridiculous shit he claimed he was going to do, because the sane Republicans and Dems would stop him. So, they can throw a bomb that wouldn’t actually wreck shit. > > Makes sense, sorta kinda. I can relate to that sort of thinking, maybe because I come from people who marry their cousins. Question is, is that “support”? … The answer depends on how committed those particular ‘let’s shake things up’ individuals are to avoiding the knowledge that they made a mistake. Unfortunately, many humans are quite deeply committed to avoiding the knowledge that they’ve made a mistake (and from this, of course, comes our species’ impressive talent at rationalizing). ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/872 "2017-06-15T21:49:50Z")
> [@](#): > > But I wouldn’t think Mueller is going to investigate that. Unless it happens to relate to Russia. Investigate what - financial crimes? Washington Post has reported Special Counsel is investigating financial crimes of Trump associates and New York Times is reporting money laundering specifically and it was tied to Russia (for his associates; neither article indicated Trump himself being investigated for such). Can’t swear that’s accurate - hasn’t been officially confirmed, but they are reputable newspapers, even if they are wrong sometimes. [Washington Post Article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/special-counsel-is-investigating-trump-for-possible-obstruction-of-justice/2017/06/14/9ce02506-5131-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html?pushid=5941b725658e691d00000050&tid=notifi_push_breaking-news&utm_term=.0d97abde2cd1) > [@](#): > > The move by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said. [New York Times article](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/mueller-trump-special-counsel-investigation.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65438771&pgtype=Homepage) > [@](#): > > A former senior official said Mr. Mueller’s investigation was looking at money laundering by Trump associates. The suspicion is that any cooperation with Russian officials would most likely have been in exchange for some kind of financial payoff, and that there would have been an effort to hide the payments, probably by routing them through offshore banking centers. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/873 "2017-06-15T23:23:32Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > Investigate what - financial crimes? Washington Post has reported Special Counsel is investigating financial crimes of Trump associates and New York Times is reporting money laundering specifically and it was tied to Russia (for his associates; neither article indicated Trump himself being investigated for such). Can’t swear that’s accurate - hasn’t been officially confirmed, but they are reputable newspapers, even if they are wrong sometimes. [Not just Trump’s anymore:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/special-counsel-is-investigating-jared-kushners-business-dealings/2017/06/15/5d9a32c6-51f2-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.77587250024b) \*"Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller is investigating the finances and business dealings of Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, as part of the probe into Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, according to officials familiar with the matter. FBI agents and federal prosecutors have also been examining the financial dealings of other Trump associates, including former national security adviser Michael Flynn, former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Carter Page, who was listed as a foreign policy adviser for the campaign."\* ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/874 "2017-06-15T23:50:22Z")
Yes, indeed, follow the money! What a splendid idea! Who’s got the popcorn? Show him the instruments of torture that await him, the battalions of beady eyed and voracious accountants, keening to open his books, all of them, everything… Then, the deal. Resign, and we’ll let you keep some. Bail out now, hit the silk, or we’ll take every dime you got, every dime your kids got, every dime you had or ever dreamed of having…or you can bail. The next sound you will hear will be… “Geronimo!”. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/875 "2017-06-15T23:53:19Z")
donnies administration is a big honeypot for corrupt scumbags. They all are dirty and became part of this under the conviction that donald would lose and it would be operation normal in a few months. No questions to answer. Now that he’s won this is looking like a giant sting operation that just lured them out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/876 "2017-06-16T00:04:48Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > donnies administration is a big honeypot for corrupt scumbags. They all are dirty and became part of this under the conviction that donald would lose and it would be operation normal in a few months. No questions to answer. Now that he’s won this is looking like a giant sting operation that just lured them out in the open. If we can’t trust an infamous con artist, who can we trust? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/877 "2017-06-16T00:56:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yes, indeed, follow the money! What a splendid idea! Who’s got the popcorn? > > Show him the instruments of torture that await him, the battalions of beady eyed and voracious accountants, keening to open his books, all of them, everything… > > Then, the deal. Resign, and we’ll let you keep some. Bail out now, hit the silk, or we’ll take every dime you got, every dime your kids got, every dime you had or ever dreamed of having…or you can bail. > > The next sound you will hear will be… “Geronimo!”. And the next sound after that will be: “I, Michael Pence, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute…” Chilling enough to make you wonder if it’s worth it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/878 "2017-06-16T01:06:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And the next sound after that will be: “I, Michael Pence, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute…” > > Chilling enough to make you wonder if it’s worth it. ☹ [Maybe not.](https://www.yahoo.com/news/pence-hires-outside-legal-counsel-213549934--politics.html) > [@](#): > > Vice President Mike Pence has hired outside legal counsel to oversee his response to investigations into possible collusion between Russia and President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign. Why would such a fine, moral, sin-free man need to worry about his response? ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/879 "2017-06-16T01:35:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Why would such a fine, moral, sin-free man need to worry about his response? I don’t like Pence. I’ve heard some concerning things on Pence (what did he know about Flynn?). But this just doesn’t work for me - innocent people most definitely need lawyers too. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792/880 "2017-06-16T01:42:29Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I don’t like Pence. I’ve heard some concerning things on Pence (what did he know about Flynn?). But this just doesn’t work for me - innocent people most definitely need lawyers too. Yeah, I don’t trust Pence for a number of reasons, but he’d be foolish not to get a lawyer at this point, no matter how clean he might be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comey-memo-trump-told-him-shut-down-flynn-probe/786792.md?page=45)