It’s hard to say exactly how powerful Surfer is. He spends most of his time bouncing around with the cosmic set who have power levels close to his own. That makes it hard to judge. However, he is the most powerful of Galactus’ heralds (as Morgue is dead). He once took Nova back in time to prehistoric Earth to show her the error of destroying inhabited planets. With his cosmic powers, it’s not hard to imagine that he would have reflexes to match his cosmic speed.
For me, the problem isn’t that some heroes are overpowered. It’s that there power levels are unclear, so a writer can give or take whatever he wants. Wolverines healing factor is a good example. Used to be that a bullet to the right spot or a decent amount of damage could take him out for a little while. Now, the last time Jean Grey died, he was conscious and healing from having 80% of the flesh of his body burned off.
Superman is another good example. His power levels fluctuate from superhuman to obscene. I think that Martian Manhunter, Flash, Wonder Woman, etc. had to get powered up just to have a reason for them to be in the JLA at all.
That’s just one of his many crazy feats. Space Jesus indeed. When he was fighting Gladiator (a Superman clone and then some). He used his “power cosmic” to divine his weakness and end the fight in an instant. Heck, even in the crossover with Superman, the man of steel himself was impressed with the Surfer’s power.
I’m sure Bosda will have some more examples, but I know these:
Superman. When he first appeared, the only powers he had was great strength (but not as strong as he became), the ability to leap 1/8th of a mile and skin so touch only an exploding shell could pentrate it.
Green Lantern: the original GL could only effect metal with his ring. This evolved into just a weakeness to wood
The Golden Age Flash was only a little faster than an airplane.
The Silver Age Iron Man wore a clunky grey suit, that evolved into a clunky Gold suit. Bulky & cumbersome, it lacked the more “Star Trek” levels of technology–ie no repulsor rays. A modern version could be restricted to projectile weapons. More “science-grounded” , if you will.
Golden Age Hawkman was important, because very few heroes could actually fly.
Wonder Woman could neither fly nor glide on air currents when she started. Had to use an airplane. Strength was limited to around 10 tons, tops.
The Golden Age Atom was unconnected to the current Atom, and had no shrinking abilities. He started out as an unpowered martial artist, but towards the end of the Golden Age gained superhuman strength, of around 15 tons lift. (Actually, I kind of approve of this particular improvement.)
There are other examples that I’m too lazy to list.
BTW–I kinda suspect the post about GL only being able to effect metal is wrong.
Well, I’ve been a comic reader for about 20 years or so, though much of my collection dates a decade or two before that. Mostly Marvel.
I tend to be fairly forgiving when it comes to the powering up of super heroes over time, as long as they are somewhat consistent.
It seems natural- many of these characters have been in circulation for 30+ years, with dozens of writers contributing. Many of the examples I’ve read (besides the super-powering of Superman) seem to be logical applications of existing powers once you take a second to think about it. It doesn’t surprise me at all that heroes would find new uses for their powers, expand their limits, or be able to perform even more amazing feats in extremis than usual. In other cases, like Superman, they get powered up because, frankly, some of their limitations make them either unbelievable or lame to a contemporary audience.
Otherwise, I think we’d have an incredibly high turnover rate among heroes as villains pop up that can exploit their known weaknesses. I don’t think that fan or publishers would go for that.
No, that’s actually correct. It was relatively quickly evolved, so only his earliest appearances mention it, but I have had the privilege of seeing Alan Scott get clocked by a glass bottle that ignored his shields.
I think you make a valid point. One problem though is that after a hero exhibits a certain power to deal with a situation in one issue it’s then hard to suspend disbelief when said hero fails to exhibit the very same power in another issue.
For example, the Flash is fast enought to clear out a city in a couple of seconds yet too slow to avoid Deathstroke’s sword? Deathstroke is maginally metahuman.
Or when Thor has stopped time in several issues yet never thinks to use it in other situations.
Agreed. But I think that it would be impossible to keep upping the ante this way- if you make a villain an even match for the hero, and have the hero win, what next? Either you make the next villain a carbon-copy, more powerful and have the hero win…somehow, or have the hero lose. Option 1 is boring (and frankly, done enough), Option 3 is unsustainable long term, leaving Option 2. of course, if the villain is more powerful, how do you resolve it? Enter the deux ex machina of ‘discovered powers’ or ‘amazing one time events.’
So, over the course of the years, you have the heroes ‘forget’ aspects of their powers, or make them inconsistent. It only really bothers me when the inconsistent moments are relatively close together (back to back issues, etc.)
And actually, I prefer this to the ever popular, Evil has won the day, beaten everything, killed all the good guys…but then somehow one evil guy betrays the group to ultimate defeat. And it’s never a change of heart- it’s always an ill-conceived plan to become ‘top dog.’ Groan.
As I said, the Flash doesn’t forget his power exactly, but doesn’t use it to become godlike because he’s young human dude: he’s used to dealing with other people primarily as people, not inanimate statues. He stops to talk to folks when they aren’t anywhere near his level because that’s the sort of gabby social guy he is. It would be pretty depressing and isolating to live at near lightspeed your whole life: even when you were trying to stop a mob. And he can’t see things coming, even slow things, if taken entirely by surprise.
Or they could, y’know, show the heroes using teamwork, cunning, tricks, stealth, or raw group firepower to take down the villains. Plus, many superhero powers are much more useful in different situations. Using diferent scenarios can make a weak villain challenging, or a strong villain less potent.
You don’t have to resort to raw power stand-offs when writing stories, and the best battles don’t really come down to that.
Besides, you make it sound as if your way is some great way of resolving things. Deus Ex Machine is rarely a good ending, and is overused in Superhero comics anyway.
The Silver Surfer has absurdly varing power levels from being able to go one one on one with hyper powered cosmic uber god beings to being smacked around by Dracula or ol’ Captain Reptyl who battles him to stand off using hand weapons. It really is kind of silly (even for a comic book).
How about the villains? If Darkseid is so powerful, why does he keep getting beaten, and why does he need all of those lame-arsed sidekicks? He can trade punches with Superman yet has trouble expanding his dominion beyond one paltry planet? Better off being de-powered somewhat by way of explanation.
In theory I was alwasy under the assumption that Darkseid’s plans of conquest were more or less held in check by New Genesis. The whole twin world thing and whatnot.
Personally, I get sick of seeing him out there trading punches with anybody. I’ve always prefered him to just loom in the background and occasionally zap someone with his Omega Effect. Personal combat has always seemed to me to be beneath Darkseid.
And don’t get me started on having him killed by the freakin’ Atom. Never. Happened.
