# Comic Book city question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 8, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619 "2004-09-08T07:13:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/1 "2004-09-08T07:13:36Z")
Okay, In Batman, the title character lives in Gotham, which is like a creepier version of NYC. In Superman, the title character lives in Metropolis, which again, is much like NYC(in the movies, Metropolis seems to have it’s own statue of liberty). Interestingly enough, in Spiderman, Spidey lives in New York, not some parallel with an adjective for a name. I believe X-men also has the team visiting New York at least in the first movie. Is this a Marvel vs. DC thing, were DC is loathe to use the Real New York but Marvel doesn’t care? Or an indiviual comic thing? And is New York the only city affected by this? I seem to recall that in one of the superman movies, there was a bomb in a Parisian Elevator on the Effiel tower. I’m really rusty on my comic books, with superman the only real experience I have(because my dad is a Superman fan and has a lot of the comics). Most of my knowledge is from TV and the movies, but I don’t know how closely those follow the comics. ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/2 "2004-09-08T08:26:26Z")
The heroes of the DC universe (and other comics verses) each had their own fictional city, pretty much to themselves until they started teaming up. This had been the standard for 20 odd years when Marvel, essentially starting from scratch in 1963, set their adventures in NYC, one of many more realistic touches which made Marvel adventures innovative. The Fantastic Four, the first 1963 Marvel Universe title, was initially set in Central City, California, but was quickly moved to NYC and most other new Marvel titles were set there as well. DC kept their fake cities but gradually began to have adventures in real ones as well. To anticipate the nitpicks, I know that Timley-Atlas-Marvel published superheroes back in the 40s, but I don’t recall whether they were set in real cities. Even if 1963 Marvel was not the first to set adventures in the “real” world, it was an innovation in that it was contrary to the prevaling standard, i.e. DC Comics. Wikipedia neatly sums up the Metropolis/Gotham geography: > [@](#): > > Gotham City is a fictional city appearing in DC Comics, best known as the home of Batman. At one point, DC placed Gotham City in the state of New Jersey, though its features and location have been altered at times due to the capricious nature of the writers, editors and storyline. Gotham is known to be architecturally modeled after New York City and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, but with more exaggerated vices. It has been said that, metaphoricaly, Metropolis (home to Superman) is New York during the day, and Gotham is New York at night. This comparison is helped by the fact that Metropolis is more often seen during the day, and Gotham more at night. Longtime Batman writer and editor Dennis O’Neil has also said figuratively that Metropolis is New York above 14th St., and that Gotham City is New York below 14th St. > **[Gotham City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotham_City)** > > Gotham City (/ˈɡɒθəm/ GOTH-əm), or simply Gotham, is a fictional city appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics, best known as the home of Batman. The city was first identified as Batman's place of residence in Batman #4 (December 1940) and has since been the primary setting for stories featuring the character. > Gotham City is traditionally depicted as being located in the U.S. state of New Jersey. Gotham's look and atmosphere was primarily influenced by New York City and Chicago... > [@](#): > > The fictional city of Metropolis is the home of the comic book superhero Superman. The co-creator and original artist of Superman, Joe Shuster, modeled the Metropolis skyline after both Toronto, Ontario (where he was born), and Cleveland, Ohio (where he later lived and met co-creator Jerry Siegel in high school). Since then, however, it has become a fictional analogue of New York City. At one point, DC Comics stated that Metropolis is in the state of Delaware. It has been said that, metaphorically, Metropolis is New York during the day, and Gotham City (home to Batman) is New York at night; this comparison is usually attributed to Frank Miller. Longtime Batman writer and editor Dennis O’Neil also said figuratively that Metropolis is New York above 14th St., and that Gotham City is New York below 14th St. > **[Metropolis (comics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(Superman))** > > Metropolis is a fictional city appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics, best known as the home of Superman and his closest allies and some of his foes. First appearing by name in Action Comics #16 (Sept. 1939), Metropolis is depicted as a prosperous and massive city in the Northeastern United States, in close proximity to Gotham City. In recent years, it's been stated to be located in Delaware. > The co-creator and original artist of Superman, Joe Shuster, modeled the Metropolis... ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/3 "2004-09-08T10:31:29Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > (in the movies, Metropolis seems to have it’s own statue of liberty). You think that’s bad…according to some comics and movies (albeit the crappy movies), _Gotham_ has it’s own Statue of Liberty analog, too. (Though I’ve seen it carrying a shield and a sword.) ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/4 "2004-09-08T10:49:27Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > You think that’s bad…according to some comics and movies (albeit the crappy movies), _Gotham_ has it’s own Statue of Liberty analog, too. (Though I’ve seen it carrying a shield and a sword.) Actually, Gotham is seedier Kiev. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/5 "2004-09-08T12:53:31Z")
That is not the Statue of Liberty. Gotham has a “sister statue” to the New York icon; the Statue of Justice. I think it was first described in Franz Kafka’s novel **Amerika**. Gamaliel: I remember clearly Prince Namor throwing the Staten Island Ferry across New York harbor back in the '40s. I believe that you could find a reprinting of the story in Jules Feiffer’s old Comic Book Heroes work. The Timely heroes worked in real cities, although I can recall a number of fictional countries. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/6 "2004-09-08T14:28:26Z")
As stated, Marvel went for being “realistic” by having real people having adventures in real places. I presume that DC did this to heighten the fantasy aspect of their comics as well as not having the characters meet on a regular basis, saving them headaches on figuring out what to do when they did meet. Of course, fans wanted to see the heroes meet, so there they went… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/7 "2004-09-08T17:38:05Z")
Actually, in Batman’s earliest adventures, he _was_ based in New York City. The locale was moved to Gotham City (which, of course, was still New York: Gotham was a nickname for NYC) after a few issues. The answer to this is complex, and has to do with changing times and changing tastes. DC heroes started out in the 1930s & 40s (some revived in the 50s, but under the same principles). Back then, you didn’t want to name a locale. Since the stories were fiction, tying them to a specific city would lead audiences to a different expectation. People would not like the supervillain destroying actual buildings. In addition, the comic industry was centered in New York, but they wanted to appeal to readers who weren’t in New York. If NYC were used, someone in Chicago might wonder why his city was slighted. Better to pick a mythical city, so everyone could imagine it was their own. By the 60s, readers didn’t care that the action was in NYC (a fact that Marvel discovered). Since the conventional wisdom in the previous paragraph was wrong, it was convenient for Marvel to set most of its stories in NYC, allowing more crossovers. There was nothing odd about Daredevil showing up in a Spider-Man comic, since they were both working in the same city. In DC, though, if you wanted Flash to meet up with Superman, you’d need some excuse to get them together. As far as added realism is concerned – we’re talking about people with abilities that weren’t even close to being realistic. It was hardly a concern. ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/8 "2004-09-08T17:49:06Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > As far as added realism is concerned – we’re talking about people with abilities that weren’t even close to being realistic. It was hardly a concern. Not true. The flashy powers were a given, but what Marvel changed was the characterization and setting. Instead of charmed golden boys in Keystone City, they had squabbling, angry, angsty heroes with money and relationship problems roaming the dirty NYC streets. That realism made a big difference both in the stories and the popularity of Marvels. The 1963 Marvels weren’t popular because they were just more adventures of more heroes with more powers, they were popular because of these differences. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-city-question/263619/9 "2004-09-08T19:47:53Z")
Marvel has also had the West Coast Avengers in LA. Also in California in the past was the first Spider-Woman who at points in her career was in San Francisco and LA. The second Spider-Woman was in Colorado. The Great Lakes Avengers was out of Wisconsin as I remember. There was a group out of Texas that covered the Southwestern US which included Firebird, Shooting Star, Texas Twister, and others who I am not remembering at this moment. The X-Mansion is in Westchester. As far as DC is concerned, Star City was Seattle, Coast City was either LA or SF(not remembering which), and Central City was in Kansas and Keystone City was in Missouri(paralleling the two Kansas Cities). I had always read that Metropolis was Chicago, Smallville was in Kansas, asnd Gotham was NYC. Happy Harbor was in Rhode Island, IIRC.