# Comic Book Retcons That Were Ignored **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541 "2005-03-21T11:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/81 "2005-03-23T20:06:13Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Anyone remember when DC tried re-doing Captain Marvel/Shazam right after the crisis? They made a four-issue miniseries called “Shazam: the New Beginning” which aged Billy Batson to his higher teens and placed him in San Francisco and I don’t even remember what else they changed. Don’t remember who wrote it, but some very nice Tom Mandrake art was wasted on that. I hated that mini-series (yet I bought all 4 issues) I remember that Savannah was now Billy’s Uncle who schemed to take him away from Uncle Dudley to get his fortune. Oh, and at the end of the series, Savannah is in Mexico thinking about getting a partner and they show a close up of the bottle of tequila with a worm in it. The only cool thing in the whole series. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/82 "2005-03-23T22:55:36Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > It’s not worthwhile? > > Well, it may not be worthwhile, but I shall do so anyway. Next up, on the list, The 7th Doctor’s appearence in the Marvel universe. 🙂 Huh? When did that happen? I recall the 4th Doctor got a four-part tryout in “Marvel Premiere” and a short-lived series U.S. series of his own. But they consisted of reprints of his british comic book series, and wasn’t ‘canon’ at all. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/83 "2005-03-23T23:15:40Z")
Scott Plaid: > [@](#): > > Sure, the events of the min-series conflicted with the regular series, but appearently most of the events still happened. Not really.Your link says that the appearances of Captain Marvel during that time are comics canon - true. But the origin redefinition that happened in the mini-series was never referenced - it was wiped out by the Ordway re-retcon, and there’s nothing that anyone can really point to (unlike with Legion and Hawkman retcons) that that throws out of whack. Captain Marvel was a Justice Leaguer…but his origin was the Ordway one, not the miniseries one. ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/84 "2005-03-24T01:14:06Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Addendum - it appears, on investigation, they refer to Indiana Jones by his full name there - and the Ark of the Covenant angle appears in a much later DC story. > > [http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/jsa/\_chron/jsachron3.html](http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/jsa/_chron/jsachron3.html) - the entry for Dec 10, 1941. Great little timeline that lines up the events depicted in various JSA stories. The Indy reference is in All-Star Squadron #6, it seems. Oh, OK. That probably doesn’t count, though – kind of a throwaway in-joke. (But another great site!) ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/85 "2005-03-24T01:36:26Z")
> [@Kaspar Hauser](#): > > Oh, OK. That probably doesn’t count, though – kind of a throwaway in-joke. (But another great site!) Throw away cannon still equals cannon in my mind. Sure, it may have no importance in the future of the series, but I can still catalog it, dammit! 🙂 Re The Doctor being Cannon: As I recall, the Marvel Character Death’s Head was giant-sized, till he tried to kill the doctor, but the Doctor used the master’s old tissue compressor gun on him, and shrunk death’s Head into human size. He then deposited the anti-hero at the Baxter Building, home of the Fantastic Four. Death’s Head also appears in the Transformers, muddying the water further. [Death's Head 1](http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/d/dethhead.htm) Re: Marvel: Yes, but I don’t think I said his origin, just many of his adventures, kinda’ like how batman of earth-1 and earth 2 had much the same adventures, just minus the shooting of criminal that earth 2 did. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/86 "2005-03-24T03:14:08Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Throw away cannon still equals cannon in my mind. It should only count if the comic had rights to use the character. Otherwise I could write a comic that has **Scott\_plaid** dancing naked on counsel table at the next session of the Supreme Court and that would mean you’d actually _done_ it. –Cliffy P.S. Two extra “n”'s in your sentence, **Scott**. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/87 "2005-03-24T04:42:20Z")
I don’t get it. After all, I _have_ danced naked in front of the supreme court. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/88 "2005-03-24T04:56:29Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > It should only count if the comic had rights to use the character. Otherwise I could write a comic that has **Scott\_plaid** dancing naked on counsel table at the next session of the Supreme Court and that would mean you’d actually _done_ it. > > –Cliffy > > P.S. Two extra “n”'s in your sentence, **Scott**. Canon can work in only one direction. It’s not Indiana Jones canon that there is such a thing as the All-Star Squadron, but it is All-Star Squadron canon that there was an archaeologist named Indiana Jones who found the Ark of the Covenant in 1941. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541/89 "2005-03-24T13:23:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Canon can work in only one direction. It’s not Indiana Jones canon that there is such a thing as the All-Star Squadron, but it is All-Star Squadron canon that there was an archaeologist named Indiana Jones who found the Ark of the Covenant in 1941. Ah-ah! No. As in my clarification, the Ark of the Covenant reference was later. A German makes reference to Professor Indiana Jones as a contemporary of his. So, it’s All-Star canon that there was a Professor Indiana Jones, archaeologist, still alive in 1941. Which is moot, of course, as it’s pre-Crisis, but it’s a funny footnote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-book-retcons-that-were-ignored/295541.md?page=4)