# Comic books: What are the worst reasons for the supervillain to hate the superhero? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 22, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213 "2005-11-22T05:38:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/41 "2005-11-23T04:00:12Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Other villain motivations… > > _Avengers_ > Baron Heinrich Zemo, besides being a Nazi nogoodnik, also ran afoul of Captain America and was doused with some of his own Adhesive X, permanently afixing his purple mask to his face. Not one to let this get him down, he swore undying vengeance on Cap and any heroes associated with him. His dad, Baron Helmut Zemo, was the Nazi (and the one who killed Bucky). Heinrich was just trying to get some vengeance for the paterfamilias when he got his mask permanently adhered to his face. (He’s actually turned down opprtunities to have his ruined face repaired.) Prof. Miles Warren became the Jackal because he had a creepy obsession with Gwen Stacy and blamed Spider-Man for her death. He eventually made clones of her and of Spider-Man. The Rainbow Raider became a super-villian because he was color-blind and couldn’t achieve his dream of becoming a great painter. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/42 "2005-11-23T04:28:45Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > How many times was the Legion infiltrated by new members operating under false pretenses? Nemesis Kid, Dynamo Boy, Molecule Master, plus probably another 3 or 4 I’m forgetting. Well, there’s sort of Dream Girl, who got into the Legion with the express intent of disabling several members (Lightning Lass, I remember because that’s how she ended up becoming Light Lass, and I think Ultra Boy and Matter-Eater Lad got the shaft from her, too.) - although that was to keep them from getting killed. I think the actual bad intent is restricted to those you listed and the villains inducted by Dynamo Boy when he took over. Including the LSV. > [@](#): > > Don’t forget the Legion of Super-Rejects! These were applicants rejected because they came from the same homeworld as other Legion members and violated the “no duplication of powers” bylaw, even though a lot of them were more powerful than their Legion counterparts. I think, despite their bragging, only Calorie Queen was actually more powerful than her equivelant (Matter-Eater Lad) - the others were better in one-on-one fights, but had no real edge in powers. And their teamwork sucked. And Phantom Lad and Magno Boy had really, really crappy costumes. > [@](#): > > A lot of them (Micro Lad, Esper Lass, Magno Lad) ended up in the new, improved Legion of Super-Villains, along with the Super-Assassins, and the original rejects that were part of the old LSV. The LSV were a fun batch for this discussion…they had the various rejects (Spider Girl. Ronn-Kar, Radiation Roy, the Super-Rejects, possibly others I can’t remember), they were founded by Tarik the Mute who hated not just the Legion, but all law enforement personelle because he was injured (and lost his ability to speak) when he got caught in crossfire; and they also had Lightning Lord, who, while his reasons for hating Lightning Lad and Lightning/Light Lass made sense (sort of), when the whole context of Winath’s culture is considered…‘I hate you because you’re twins and I’m not!’ really sounds lame at first blush. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/43 "2005-11-23T05:46:51Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > His dad, Baron Helmut Zemo, was the Nazi (and the one who killed Bucky). Heinrich was just trying to get some vengeance for the paterfamilias when he got his mask permanently adhered to his face. (He’s actually turned down opprtunities to have his ruined face repaired.) Sorry, bud, you’ve got your Zemos mixed up. Heinrich is the father, and Helmut his son. It was Heinrich who was the Nazi, who got his mask adhered to his face, and who killed Bucky. Helmut’s notable acts include leading the Masters of Evil to trash the Avengers mansion and forming the Thunderbolts. For more info, see [Bring On the Bad Guys: Baron Zemo](http://www.geocities.com/marvel_monsters/zemo/zemo.html). Interesting footnote: Though his father was a noted Nazi, Helmut Zemo and his wife Heike\* actually adopted a number of ethnically diverse children he had kidnapped from abusive homes. The children were eventually taken from him by Captain America, who did his best to find them new families. \*A bizarre, bizarre character I’ll go into another time. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/44 "2005-11-23T22:51:57Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > (…) Lightning Lord, who, while his reasons for hating Lightning Lad and Lightning/Light Lass made sense (sort of), when the whole context of Winath’s culture is considered…‘I hate you because you’re twins and I’m not!’ really sounds lame at first blush. Am I the only one with enough of a gutter mind to read some **really** non-Comics Code approved subtext into sibling relations on Winath? Especially given one time when L. Lord was ranting something like “I was the eldest, I had rights!” ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/45 "2005-11-23T23:09:22Z")
Heh…I wouldn’t say Winathi society as a whole, but some of the writers do make me think things might have been a little…odd in the Ranzz household. The way Mekt menaces Ayla in the first LSV arc of the Baxter series, in particular. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/46 "2005-11-24T01:51:53Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > One version of the story makes Doom’s hatred particularly irrational: he was “disfigured” (i.e. got a small scar) in the resulting explosion, and when he forged himself a suit of armor he insisted on putting on the mask before it cooled properly (and **really** disfigured himself as a result). IIRC Lee and Kirby disagreed on how badly Doom was hurt in the explosion. One wanted Doom to have minor scar. The other wanted Doom’s face to be ruined before he put on the mask. **Lumpy** The post crisis Luthor was fat and out of shape (then he transferred his brain into a cloned body, and I don’t know what he looks like now). The pre-crisis Luthor was in great shape. Though not massively muscled, he clearly spent time at the gym. Re Eddie Brock Yeah, that was a bit odd. Brock breaks the story of the true identity of a serial killer. Then, Spider-Man caught and unmasked the killer. Brock had been wrong. The Daily Bugle fired him. Rather than his boss, or his sources, Brock blames Spidey. Back To The OP Living Monolith- He discovered that Havok was somehow absorbing cosmic energy that LM needed to activate his powers. LM kidnaps Havok and puts him in a radiation proof cell. Iron Man has been attacked by plenty of other folks who lost contracts or status because people went with Stark technology. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/47 "2005-11-24T02:03:25Z")
Which villain was the Prosecutor who got his face splashed with acid by a gangster he was trying and blamed Batman (I think it was Batman) for it because he didn’t stop the guy in time, and became a Super Villain because of it? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/48 "2005-11-24T02:11:24Z")
That’s Two Face, but I don’t think he really blamed Batman for Falcone’s actions. The disfigurement just sort of broke his mind, and he rather inevetably butted heads with Batman as a result of turning criminal. Although ‘Gotham’s Supervillains are Batman’s fault’ is a common theme in Batman stories - IIRC, it comes up in Arkham Asylum (which I might need to reread), several of the movies, the Dini animates series, and presumably in other places. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/49 "2005-11-24T02:13:50Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Which villain was the Prosecutor who got his face splashed with acid by a gangster he was trying and blamed Batman (I think it was Batman) for it because he didn’t stop the guy in time, and became a Super Villain because of it? Two-Face. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/50 "2005-11-24T02:29:34Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Although ‘Gotham’s Supervillains are Batman’s fault’ is a common theme in Batman stories - IIRC, it comes up in Arkham Asylum (which I might need to reread), several of the movies, the Dini animates series, and presumably in other places. _Batman Begins_ made reference to the idea that I thought was rather nice. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/51 "2005-11-24T03:01:13Z")
I once wrote a novella where the bad guy had the four heroes (from another dimension) chained to a wall in a cave. Then he explained why he did it. “When I was 8, Bobby Jenkins told me I was so lame, I couldn’t kidnap 4 people from another dimension and chain them to a wall. Ha, I proved him wrong.” Then he let them go. Yes, it was an odd story. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/52 "2005-11-24T06:24:31Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > There was a recurring minor Avengers villian, I don’t remember his name, who won the lottery and bought a bunch of third rate supervillian gadgetry and repeatedly attacked the Avengers in order to become famous. > > Two incidents I recall : He attacks while Wasp is having a large party of superheroines over ( she wanted more female Avengers ); amusingly, they beat him almost without interrupting their conversation beyond comments like “Who is he?” and “Oh, one of _those_”. In the second, he tried to booby trap them when they appeared on the _David Letterman Show_; they broke the traps and Letterman beat him unconscious. Fabian Stankowitz, the Mechano Marauder. Years later, he auditioned to join the Avengers and didn’t make the cut, but Cap hired him as some kind of staff mechanic. He didn’t last long; he failed a drug test and made Cap uncomfortable by asking what the difference was between his crystal meth habit and Cap’s Super Soldier Serum. “It’s, uh, different, okay?” Yes, I know this trivial crap. Don’t shun me. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/53 "2005-11-24T06:49:54Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Heh…I wouldn’t say Winathi society as a whole, but some of the writers do make me think things might have been a little…odd in the Ranzz household. The way Mekt menaces Ayla in the first LSV arc of the Baxter series, in particular. It was always pretty clear to me that Mekt’s interest in Ayla was like Amnon’s in Tamar…and that she knew it. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/54 "2005-11-24T06:57:51Z")
Ultron has always hated Henry Pym for… I dunno… making him? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/55 "2005-11-24T08:05:10Z")
Actually, Dr. Doom hated Rex Reed for appearing in _Myra Breckenridge_ as the pre-op Myron. He also had a vendetta against Raquel Welch and Mae West for the same reason. The thing is, if you’ve seen the movie, that’s hardly irrational… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/56 "2005-11-24T15:47:40Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Ultron has always hated Henry Pym for… I dunno… making him? It’s often been said (in the actual comic pages) that Ultron has an Oedipus complex – he wants to kill his father (Pym) and possess his mother (Janet van Dyne/the Wasp – and/or Jocasta, the robot Ultron created with a personality patterned on Janet’s). That Ultron’s brain waves are modeled on Pym’s own might have something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/57 "2005-11-24T16:26:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s often been said (in the actual comic pages) that Ultron has an Oedipus complex – he wants to kill his father (Pym) and possess his mother (Janet van Dyne/the Wasp – and/or Jocasta, the robot Ultron created with a personality patterned on Janet’s). That Ultron’s brain waves are modeled on Pym’s own might have something to do with it. This explains something that’s always puzzled me…I started reading Avengers in the period when Jocasta was an associate member but in between Ultron attacks, so I missed the explanation and always wondered why this robot was named after Oedipus’s mother. Slightly more erudite than you usually expect from comics, especially in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![aliencase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@aliencase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aliencase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/58 "2005-11-24T17:25:42Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Sorry to keep up the hijack, but for some reason I’m reminded of the South Park where Leonard Maltin, Sydney Poitier, and Robert Smith unite to defeat Mecha-Streisand. Another South Park reference this reminded me of: SUPERFRIENDS (Noah, Jesus, Seamen [lol], etc. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/59 "2005-11-24T22:19:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s often been said (in the actual comic pages) that Ultron has an Oedipus complex – he wants to kill his father (Pym) and possess his mother (Janet van Dyne/the Wasp – and/or Jocasta, the robot Ultron created with a personality patterned on Janet’s). That Ultron’s brain waves are modeled on Pym’s own might have something to do with it. Hell, the whole robo-Pym clan might just steal the title of Most Dysfunctional Comic Book FamilyTM from the Superman-Superboy-Lex Luthor group over at DC Comics. We have Daddy **Hank Pym** , the wife-beatin’, occasionally insane superhero mad scientist. Then we have Momma **Janet Van Dyne** , the ditzy broad-turned-strong woman of doubtful fidelity. There’s **Ultron** (Hank Pym, Jr.), the killer robot with the Oedipal complex. Ultron’s daughters/wives, doormat **Jocasta** and bitch queen **Alkhema** , and Ultron’s “he-done-right” sons, **Vision** and **Victor Mancha**. I bet going home for the holidays to this incestuous, brain-stealing family has got to be stressful, at least. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213/60 "2005-11-24T23:08:53Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > Hell, the whole robo-Pym clan might just steal the title of Most Dysfunctional Comic Book FamilyTM from the Superman-Superboy-Lex Luthor group over at DC Comics. I think the Summers clan might just have a bid in on that title as well, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comic-books-what-are-the-worst-reasons-for-the-supervillain-to-hate-the-superhero/332213.md?page=4)