# Comma after Year **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074 "2016-06-22T18:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/1 "2016-06-22T18:47:42Z")
I have heard and read (even just recently) that a comma must follow the year in dates; e.g., On January 2, 2016, xyz happened. I don’t see the need for that comma and I refuse to insert it. Is it required to be grammatically correct? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/2 "2016-06-22T19:00:32Z")
It depends on what you mean by grammatical. I would consider that a stylistic issue. If the way you are writing the date places the day of the month and the year next to each other, I would use the comma. The point is to demonstrate where the day ends and the year begins, much as it’s expected to insert a comma after the city name and before the state abbreviation on addresses in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/3 "2016-06-22T19:10:05Z")
Usage does not correspond to grammar. Dozens of different usage (or style) guides exist and they are obviously not at all identical. Unless you are specifically told to hew to some particular style guide you don’t need to follow any of them. It’s all convention. That said, the usual form of dates in most professional contexts follows the convention that a comma is used before and after the year if Month/Day/Year is given. A comma is not used if just Month/Year is given. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/4 "2016-06-22T19:12:34Z")
It’s a stylistic issue. Both the Chicago Manual of Style and the AP Stylebook say the month-day-year system requires a comma to set off the year (June 22, 2016). CMoS says that in the day-month-year system (not mentioned by AP), which is standard British usage and also in scientific material, no comma is necessary (22 June 2016). You can do whatever you want in your personal usage. But if you are writing for a publication that uses either CMoS or AP, it is required. Personally, I prefer to use the day-month-year system when possible. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/5 "2016-06-22T19:19:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Personally, I prefer to use the day-month-year system when possible. Thus royally lousing up chronological order of computer files that have the date in the name. 🙂 If you’re indexing digital things, year-month-day is the only logical system. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/6 "2016-06-22T19:21:39Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I have heard and read (even just recently) that a comma must follow the year in dates; e.g., On January 2, 2016, xyz happened. I don’t see the need for that comma and I refuse to insert it. Is it required to be grammatically correct? This isn’t “official,” but if it helps to justify the comma to you, try reading it aloud with a significant pause wherever there’s a comma (and none where there isn’t): **On January 2 …_pause_… 2016 …_pause_… xyz happened.** vs. **On January 2 …_pause_… 2016 xyz happened.** Without that second pause/comma, the year and the next word (“happened”) kind of run together, whereas the 2016 should sound like it’s part of the date and not part of the “happened.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/7 "2016-06-22T19:32:00Z")
The OP is asking about a comma after the year, not about between the date and the year. As far as I know it’s not necessary unless the sentence is structured so a pause is in fact needed. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/8 "2016-06-22T19:34:29Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s a stylistic issue. Both the Chicago Manual of Style and the AP Stylebook say the month-day-year system requires a comma to set off the year (June 22, 2016). CMoS says that in the day-month-year system (not mentioned by AP), which is standard British usage and also in scientific material, no comma is necessary (22 June 2016). > > You can do whatever you want in your personal usage. But if you are writing for a publication that uses either CMoS or AP, it is required. Personally, I prefer to use the day-month-year system when possible. I have no beef with that. My question is the comma after the year. How can it be misleading to omit that comma? A pause is not always a place for a comma, so I will not follow that reasoning. I worked for a federal administrative judge (in another life) who fancied himself an expert on grammar and who insisted on that comma. However, in my readings of laws and decisions, I do not ever recall a comma being inserted there. That would be a matter for the federal manual of style, I guess, which I never read. My local newspaper does not insert that comma, so I guess it depends upon which manual of style you are using. What prompted this question was an email I received from “Grammatically” that stated the comma was necessary . Grammatically that is inaccurate because it is a matter of style. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/9 "2016-06-22T20:02:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The OP is asking about a comma after the year, not about between the date and the year. As far as I know it’s not necessary unless the sentence is structured so a pause is in fact needed. > [@barbitu8](#): > > I have no beef with that. My question is the comma after the year. Both CMoS and AP style require the year to be set off by commas, that is, with a comma both before and after. _The OP complained about having to use a comma after the year on June 22, 2016, on the SDMB._ > [@](#): > > How can it be misleading to omit that comma? A pause is not always a place for a comma, so I will not follow that reasoning. I worked for a federal administrative judge (in another life) who fancied himself an expert on grammar and who insisted on that comma. However, in my readings of laws and decisions, I do not ever recall a comma being inserted there. That would be a matter for the federal manual of style, I guess, which I never read. It’s a matter of style, not grammar. If you are writing for an organization that uses that style, then you are required to use it. > [@](#): > > My local newspaper does not insert that comma, so I guess it depends upon which manual of style you are using. I’m surprised that even a local newspaper wouldn’t use AP style. > [@](#): > > What prompted this question was an email I received from “Grammatically” that stated the comma was necessary . Grammatically that is inaccurate because it is a matter of style. You’re right. But that doesn’t affect whether you need to use it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/10 "2016-06-22T20:09:28Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I worked for a federal administrative judge (in another life) who fancied himself an expert on grammar and who insisted on that comma. However, in my readings of laws and decisions, I do not ever recall a comma being inserted there. That would be a matter for the federal manual of style, I guess, which I never read. Not exactly the same thing, but the [style manual for the Government Printing Office](https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2008/pdf/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2008.pdf) uses the comma to set off dates too. > [@](#): > > 8.49. After the year in complete dates (month, day, year) within a sentence. > The dates of September 11, 1993, to June 12, 1994, were erroneous. > This was reflected in the June 13, 2007, report. > but Production for June 2008 was normal. > The 10 February 2008 deadline passed. I think this style is pretty standard. I don’t know why you are failing to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/11 "2016-06-22T20:46:28Z")
Try this sentence: On January 2, 1962 people died in a major battle. Did I just tell you that an unspecified number of people died on a day in the early 60s, or did I just tell you that nearly two thousand people died in an unspecified year? ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/12 "2016-06-22T21:04:51Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I worked for a federal administrative judge (in another life) who fancied himself an expert on grammar and who insisted on that comma. However, in my readings of laws and decisions, I do not ever recall a comma being inserted there. That would be a matter for the federal manual of style, I guess, which I never read. I just looked up three random US Supreme Court opinions, and they all use the comma after the year. This is also consistent with style guides I’ve encountered. Maybe it helps to think of this without the additional commas that come with adding the day. That is, which one looks “correct” to you: “In January 2016, the appellant…” Or “In January 2016 the appellant…” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/13 "2016-06-22T21:12:45Z")
You would also use a comma there for any other time that you specify: “On last Thursday, xyz happened.” Same thing. It’s normally left in because there’s a pause in the speech that the written text is conveying. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/14 "2016-06-22T21:34:27Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Thus royally lousing up chronological order of computer files that have the date in the name. > > 🙂 > > If you’re indexing digital things, year-month-day is the only logical system. Not year-month-day (in which the month could be spelled out) but YYYYMMDD is what you want. I use YYYYMMDD when labeling things that will be sorted digitally. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/15 "2016-06-22T22:16:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I use YYYYMMDD when labeling things that will be sorted digitally. Thus creating headaches for all the software developers 7,984 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/16 "2016-06-22T22:27:35Z")
Don’t get me started on the Oxford comma. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/17 "2016-06-22T22:52:58Z")
Both of Thailand’s English-language dailies, _The Nation_ and the _Bangkok Post_, generally follow British style but not always. They both write dates in the form of May 22, 2016. Their style guides dictate no comma after the year unless it’s the end of a phrase or clause. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/18 "2016-06-23T05:24:40Z")
On January 2, 2016 rabid Wombats killed and ate 12 preschoolers. On January 2, 2016, rabid Wombats killed and ate 12 preschoolers. In the first instance. It seems it took a lot of Wombats to get the job done. And not exactly when they did it. In the second instance, it is not clear how many Wombats did it. But you know exactly the year and day that they did it. On January 2, 2016, no Wombats ate any preschoolers. At all. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/19 "2016-06-23T05:40:26Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > On January 2, 2016 rabid Wombats killed and ate 12 preschoolers. > On January 2, 2016, rabid Wombats killed and ate 12 preschoolers. > > In the first instance. It seems it took a lot of Wombats to get the job done. And not exactly when they did it. In the second instance, it is not clear how many Wombats did it. But you know exactly the year and day that they did it. Yes, in that particular context the comma is helpful - but not because it follows a year. Rather, it separates a phrase locating an event in time from a phrase identifying the event. But in a sentence like “the November 7, 2017, elections are expected to have a record turnout” the comma would serve no such purpose. If the sentence were simply “the 2017 elections are expected to have a record turnout” there would be no comma. So all your example does is to show that in some contexts, a comma after a year may be necessary to eliminate ambiguity. Nobody disputes this. But it cast no light on the question of whether, when the month-day-year format is employed, a comma after the year should always be supplied. For the life of me, I can’t see why that should be so. (Not that matters of style need a rationalisation, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074/20 "2016-06-23T06:13:06Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Yes, in that particular context the comma is helpful - but not because it follows a year. Rather, it separates a phrase locating an event in time from a phrase identifying the event. > > But in a sentence like “the November 7, 2017, elections are expected to have a record turnout” the comma would serve no such purpose. If the sentence were simply “the 2017 elections are expected to have a record turnout” there would be no comma. > > So all your example does is to show that in some contexts, a comma after a year may be necessary to eliminate ambiguity. Nobody disputes this. But it cast no light on the question of whether, when the month-day-year format is employed, a comma after the year should always be supplied. For the life of me, I can’t see why that should be so. (Not that matters of style need a rationalisation, of course.) Not terribly good at grammar. But could subtracting the comma after 2017, leave it possible, that there might have been 2017 elections on November 7? Or does the, “the” in front of November, negate that possibility? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comma-after-year/758074.md?page=2)