# Commander Francis X. Castellano **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739 "2009-04-11T13:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/41 "2009-04-12T13:51:19Z")
As I understand it, these ships are part of a flotilla that is in the region specifically to cope with piracy issues. And they’ve been there for months. They should have been provided with all kinds of personnel and specialized equipment to facilitate boardings, personal combat and hostage rescue. It’s not the case that a navy ship just happened to be tootling by and responded because chance brought them to the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/42 "2009-04-12T14:55:03Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I want the Captain to get out alive. After that I have no problem if every would be pirate is hung by their heels and a cock shoved in their mouths. Now that’s funny! Not only kill them, but humiliate them by stuffing roosters in their mouths! Not sure of the symbolism, but the image is amusing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/43 "2009-04-12T15:35:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Buy one stupid comment, get one free! No not really. Pirates are the Common Enemy of Mankind, legally there is no difference if their crime is in international waters or in New York Harbor. International law allows and requires all navies to suppress piracy. So the US Navy is simply obligated to capture and try these guys (if we take them alive). Better they should die. In the past these measures suppressed piracy quite well and it is not obvious why these techniques would not fulfill our obligations equally well now. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/44 "2009-04-12T16:34:17Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > At the risk of being overly political, the piracy thing is sort of ironic. > The pirates are trying to make a living in a basically Hobbesean state. They have nothing to lose. Hijacking a ship and getting ransom money at a smallish risk of death is not a bad life choice for them. And to be fair, the pirates are mostly not very vicious – it’s bad for business. > > So the bloodthirstyness of our reactions to the pirates is sort of disturbing in that I am guessing a lot of the people here probably supported Clinton’s decision to pull out of Somalia (which also pulled the U.N. away) because of a small number of U.S. casualties, and a desire not to meddle in a not-quite-civil-war-but-more-like-plain-anarchy because it “wasn’t our problem/job to be world police”. > > It would be funny that we are now advocating killing the living shit out of these people with Q-ships and snipers and deck guns and bombers and cocks if it weren’t so sad that our moral outrage is triggered by stolen Hyundais and not by starvation, poverty, murder and various other human rights violations that we turned a blind eye on a decade or so back. If you haven’t already read it, you’ll probably enjoy reading about the [monkeysphere](http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html) / [Dunbar’s number](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number#Popularization). ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/45 "2009-04-12T16:37:42Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No not really. Pirates are the Common Enemy of Mankind, legally there is no difference if their crime is in international waters or in New York Harbor. International law allows and requires all navies to suppress piracy. > > So the US Navy is simply obligated to capture and try these guys (if we take them alive). > > Better they should die. In the past these measures suppressed piracy quite well and it is not obvious why these techniques would not fulfill our obligations equally well now. Except that there have been cases like this continually and nobody in America gave a shit until an American flagged vessel was the victim (which is not even American owned). And except that the USA denies universal jurisdiction for Americans who have tortured and rather than try them it protects them. And torture is a much more heinous crime then a hijacking which so far has resulted in no bodily harm to anybody. In this case at least the pirates do not harm people. Americans are worse in their thirst for blood. So, in summary, all this is pure crap intended to rationalize America’s thirst for foreign blood when they dare challenge America. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/46 "2009-04-12T17:13:15Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No not really. Pirates are the Common Enemy of Mankind, legally there is no difference if their crime is in international waters or in New York Harbor. International law allows and requires all navies to suppress piracy. > > So the US Navy is simply obligated to capture and try these guys (if we take them alive). > > Better they should die. In the past these measures suppressed piracy quite well and it is not obvious why these techniques would not fulfill our obligations equally well now. I was referring to this specific portion of your post: > [@](#): > > If the hostage survives, all the better I don’t know about your priorities, but IMHO, rescuing the hostage might be a _little_ more important than killing the pirates. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/47 "2009-04-12T17:35:15Z")
CNN reporting that the standoff is over , captain safe and three pirates are visiting davey jones locker. Declan ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/48 "2009-04-12T17:35:39Z")
CNN is reporting the hostage has been freed. In the operation three pirates were killed and one was captured. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/49 "2009-04-12T17:57:27Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > CNN reporting that the standoff is over , captain safe and three pirates are visiting davey jones locker. > > Declan Arrr.. [Blam! Bang!] Arrrrrrrrrrrgggghhh!!! I was wondering why \*\*xtime \*\*in the GD thread on this had the pirates saying the less used arrgh and not arrr! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/50 "2009-04-12T18:18:02Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > CNN is reporting the hostage has been freed. In the operation three pirates were killed and one was captured. Well I guess those pirates won’t be using their share of the ransom to buy a Toyota Yarrrrrrrrrrrris. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/51 "2009-04-12T18:25:19Z")
Well. It seems as though there \*were \*SEALS on board. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/52 "2009-04-12T18:28:13Z")
From CNN: > [@](#): > > At the time of the shootings, the fourth pirate was aboard the USS Bainbridge negotiating with officials, the source said. That pirate was taken into custody. Oops. “Ok I’ll tell you what, you can have him and I’ll just be going.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/53 "2009-04-12T19:00:43Z")
Well, thank goodness for operational success. Filed under occupational risks of piracy (and you don’t even get insurance if you get hurt on the job!). And really folks, one of the things that’s supposed to characterized the “civilized” IS to care about not killing the very people we’re supposed to be saving. \*“Kill all the (pirates/terrorists) and just hope any hostages survive” \*should be reserved for some extreme imminent danger situation. [hijack 😃] > [@furt](#): > > So please, give us your plan for making Somalia a functioning state again. Because you apparently have one. Nobody else does, though, so feel free to enlighten us. We may want to think to stop trying to do just that, and to let the the artificial “nation” of Somalia as we think of it pass, so that Somaliland, Puntland, a more manageable “rump state” of Somalia, etc. have a go at getting their stuff together in a more compact scale. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/54 "2009-04-12T19:59:04Z")
[My hat is off to **Commander Francis X. Castellano**.](http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/04/12/world/africa/13pirates.1.ready.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/55 "2009-04-12T20:46:58Z")
For doing exactly the same thing he did yesterday? Do you remember yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/56 "2009-04-12T21:17:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Well. It seems as though there \*were \*SEALS on board. I never said there weren’t. Please go back and read carefully. I stated that it was highly unlikely that they were in position to launch an assault on very short notice. In this case, it seems obvious that the FBI negotiators talked the pirates into sending a guy over to talk. This allowed the DD to get really close, probably sending a boat over to pick up a pirate. During the negotiations, the SEAL team probably came back to the lifeboat the same way that the negotiator left, letting the pirates think their mate was coming back. The other alternative was that they swam over, but that’s less likely. Either way, the fact that an assault was launched only after the change in the tactical situation lends evidence to the idea that it wasn’t possible to have teams of snipers and frogmen ready to pounce at any given time. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/57 "2009-04-12T21:57:43Z")
I wonder if the captain had already been communicated that he should jump overboard but when he tried that the first time the navy wasn’t ready or could not react for some reason. Then, the following night, the same thing happened, the captain jumped and the pirates were riddled with gunfire. We will never know how the operation was planned or carried out but I bet they somehow communicated with the captain and he was part of the plan. I am very happy he was not harmed. At any rate, the rescue was done effectively and I have no objection to such an operation. I get no joy from the deaths of the pirates though. They gambled and they lost. For the same reason I get no joy from the deaths of American soldiers in Iraq who I believe are also doing something they should not be doing. They gamble and they lose and I am not sorry that people doing bad things lose but I get no joy from it either. I still do not think it would be acceptable to do wholesale punishments against coastal towns. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/58 "2009-04-12T23:02:57Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > On the other side, we have our magical snipers and SEAL teams that we learned about from Charlie Sheen and the Punisher … From [Bloomberg](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aj.7xFLvuiA0&refer=worldwide): > [@](#): > > The pirates were shot by snipers aboard the destroyer USS Bainbridge, which was 25 to 30 meters away from the lifeboat where Phillips was being held, Gortney said. Ain’t sarcasm a bitch when it bites right back at ya! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/59 "2009-04-12T23:19:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In my view, **ivn1188** ’s analysis is spot-on. I was going to say something but…never mind. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/60 "2009-04-12T23:24:12Z")
According to news reports, the Bainbridge had orders from the President to use deadly force if Captain Phillips’s life was in danger. One of the snipers saw one of the pirates aiming a rifle at Philips, and so opened fire. It’s unclear if Philips jumped into the water before or after the snipers opened fire. At any rate, they did a helluva good job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739.md?page=4)