# Commas, parenthesis and em dashes. How do describe their different uses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094 "2013-05-11T18:14:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/1 "2013-05-11T18:14:49Z")
The choice of how to set things off, though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now, can create different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? The choice of how to set things off (though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now) can create a different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? The choice of how to set things off—though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now—can create a different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/2 "2013-05-11T19:20:00Z")
If you are talking about their “bracketing” use, commas set off or separate the parenthetical material fairly weakly and unobtrusively, parentheses are stronger, and em-dashes stronger still, creating a noticeable break in the sentence. Em-dashes tend to emphasize the material they contain, whereas parentheses tend to de-emphasize it, but, in general, it is best to use parentheses sparingly, and em-dashes _very_ sparingly. (It is often better to rewrite and reorganize the material as separate sentences, rather than to use either.) But with commas, knock yourself out. Of course, parentheses can also be used to mark whole sentences as asides (as I just did), and both commas and dashes have other uses too. Personally, I much prefer en-dashes surrounded by spaces to em-dashes (with or without spaces) in this role, but I guess that is between you and your editor. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/3 "2013-05-11T19:38:45Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Personally, I much prefer en-dashes surrounded by spaces to em-dashes (with or without spaces) in this role, but I guess that is between you and your editor. Actually, it’s between me and my wife (she does the graphic design for most of the books we publish). ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/4 "2013-05-11T20:00:34Z")
Parentheses signal that whatever’s in the parentheses is extraneous to the sentence. That’s why (I and my 12th grade English teacher agree) you should usually either make whats in the pathetheses part of the sentence, or remove it. m dashes are basically the same a a comma in effect when they frame an independent clause but aren’t considered as “correct” stylistically in formal writing. They can be used in place of commas where using so many commas would be confusing. Again, usually the better practice is to reform the complex sentence into two clearly stated thoughts, but not always. m-dashes – not to be confused with n-dashes – are a form of punctuation, which, in some cases, can stand for commas, as long as what’s contained within is an independent clause. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/5 "2013-05-11T20:11:38Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > If you are talking about their “bracketing” use, commas set off or separate the parenthetical material fairly weakly and unobtrusively, parentheses are stronger, and em-dashes stronger still, creating a noticeable break in the sentence. Em-dashes tend to emphasize the material they contain, whereas parentheses tend to de-emphasize it, but, in general, it is best to use parentheses sparingly, and em-dashes _very_ sparingly. (It is often better to rewrite and reorganize the material as separate sentences, rather than to use either.) As a former editor of an academic journal, I agree. I would also add that, IMO, when you have the need to create a parenthetical in a sentence that already contains many commas for whatever reason, it is appropriate to use em-dashes or parentheses in cases where you might not otherwise do so; of course, rewriting the sentence or section is often a better solution. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/6 "2013-05-11T20:58:54Z")
Parentheses are good for an aside or clarification. The sentence should make sense even if the parenthetical clause is removed. Commas can be used in dialogue, exposition, or narration to indicate a speech pattern, and IMHO should be used more often to organize text. Dashes provide more emphasis for those functions. I don’t care much what the official rules are as long as the sentence can be understood. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/7 "2013-05-11T21:14:36Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The choice of how to set things off, though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now, can create different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? > > The choice of how to set things off (though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now) can create a different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? > > The choice of how to set things off—though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now—can create a different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? Do you want to mimic real-time thinking-out-loud more appropriate to dramatic dialogue? The choice of how to set things off… though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now… can create a different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/8 "2013-05-11T21:26:09Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > As a former editor of an academic journal, I agree. I would also add that, IMO, when you have the need to create a parenthetical in a sentence that already contains many commas for whatever reason, it is appropriate to use em-dashes or parentheses in cases where you might not otherwise do so; of course, rewriting the sentence or section is often a better solution. You can probably relate—most of our work is in collaboration with active and practising academics. This means combining searing precision in a collaborative environment spiked with the occasional hyper-extended ego. Plus, given that the the mix of topics includes somewhat contentious issues that require great care in phrasing (e.g. climate change and gender), no matter how much I rewrite and wrangle I’m often left with diabolically intricate sentences. I’m a heavy comment user to explain changes or phrasing, and was wondering here how my conception holds up to the GQ Reality. **moriah** : I write like that when I want to mimic James T. Kirk. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/9 "2013-05-11T21:30:05Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > Do you want to mimic real-time thinking-out-loud more appropriate to dramatic dialogue? > > The choice of how to set things off… though I’m hard-pressed to think of an example right now… can create a different impression on the reader. Can you describe which does what and why? Nobody has used ellipses in print since the days of Celine and Walter Winchell. It’s non-standard at best. The formal rules are as others have described them. In more informal writing, say here at the Dope, I’d recommend a heavier use of parens and dashes, because they provide immediate visual cues that asides are coming. Commas can be hard to unravel. Whether to use spaces around dashes is almost religious in the warfare that ensues. I’m for them. Again, it’s a better visual cue. Rhythmdvl, I wrote this and just saw that you posted with more info. But I’m going to say it anyway. You didn’t give us even a clue about the text you’re working on. This a major pet peeve of mine. How can people possibly think anyone can give a good answer if they don’t know the context? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/10 "2013-05-11T21:37:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Rhythmdvl, I wrote this and just saw that you posted with more info. But I’m going to say it anyway. You didn’t give us even a clue about the text you’re working on. This a major pet peeve of mine. How can people possibly think anyone can give a good answer if they don’t know the context? Sorry, unless it’s germane I generally avoid context to avoid tainting the answer. In this case, things are usually extraordinarily formal, but the concepts should transcend that. Plus, given the number of errors that hide in my posts I find it somewhat embarrassing to admit what I do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/11 "2013-05-11T22:50:12Z")
I plan on having my ashes scattered, but I might put up a tombstone anyway just so I can have “Context is Everything” carved on it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/12 "2013-05-11T23:01:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I plan on having my ashes scattered, but I might put up a tombstone anyway just so I can have “Context is Everything” carved on it. 🙂 I have a similar plan. I want a tombstone reading “I told you I was sick”, but I’ve left instructions to be cremated and have my ashes scattered over an unsuspecting crowd, ideally Yankees fans or congressmen. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/13 "2013-05-12T00:53:25Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Actually, it’s between me and my wife (she does the graphic design for most of the books we publish). Well, that should settle and over-rule all other considerations. What SWMBO wants, SWMBO gets. 🙂 ETA: Assuming I decide to use dashes — like this (em-dash) – or like this (en-dash), is there any rule to determine which is appropriate? I have an available supply of both handy. (I always put spaces around them in any case.) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/14 "2013-05-12T13:55:42Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > ETA: Assuming I decide to use dashes — like this (em-dash) – or like this (en-dash), is there any rule to determine which is appropriate? I have an available supply of both handy. (I always put spaces around them in any case.) This really comes down to typography and needs to viewed in the context of medium, page layout, font choice and size, column arrangement, etc. eta: just make sure you always do it the same way - kind of like the decision of whether to use a comma before the ‘and’ in the last item in a series. At the journal I worked on, we had a set of journal conventions that superseded all other authorities, which included rules about items of this nature (journal conventions \> Bluebook \> Chicago Manual of Style). ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/15 "2013-05-12T14:20:52Z")
> [@senegoid](#): > > eta: Assuming i decide to use dashes — like this (em-dash) – or like this (en-dash), is there any rule to determine which is appropriate? I have an available supply of both handy. (i always put spaces around them in any case.) Where rules exist (house styles and the like) I think they usually prescribe em-dashes. However, in many fonts (not so much the Dope’s standard display font) em-dashes can be very long and obtrusive, especially when used with spaces (and, there are good reasons for using spaces, even though some house styles won’t let you). As I said, my own quite strong preference (aesthetically) is for en-dashes with spaces. Em: — (but in many fonts they are are much longer) En: – (but in many fonts the en-dash is more like the em-dash above) Hyphen: - ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/16 "2013-05-12T14:39:24Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > eta: just make sure you always do it the same way - kind of like the decision of whether to use a comma before the ‘and’ in the last item in a series. This is more important than any particular style. None is necessarily better than another, but be consistent. I wrote a lot using the style guide for the American Chemical Society. They have specific guidance on all sorts of vagaries of punctuation and typography. That guidance likely differs from another style guide. For instance, papers published in _Science_ have hyphens to represent chemical bonds (“homolytic C-H bond cleavage”), whereas you’ll see en-dashes in ACS journals (“C–H”, if that renders correctly; on preview I see that it does not.) Neither is right, although I prefer the longer character. Some guidance is related to making the publication more readable. For example, certain sans-serif fonts are recommended for atom labels in figures. I worked for a guy who insisted on using Times until I brought him a draft he’d printed for me to review. The printer was crappy and you couldn’t tell the difference between H and N because the cross bar didn’t show up. Just looked like I I. In this case the style matters, but often it’s just a matter of consistency. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commas-parenthesis-and-em-dashes-how-do-describe-their-different-uses/658094/17 "2013-05-12T14:48:58Z")
Edgar Allan Poe may not qualify as a grammar expert — and anyway dashes were, I think, far more common 160 years ago — but [he wrote about the dash](http://www.eapoe.org/works/misc/mar0248.htm): > [@](#): > > In the meantime let me say a word or two of the dash. Every writer for the press, who has any sense of the accurate, must have been frequently mortified and vexed at the distortion of his sentences by the printer’s now general substitution of a semicolon, or comma, for the dash of the MS. The total or nearly total disuse of the latter point, has been brought about by the revulsion consequent upon its excessive employment about twenty years ago. The Byronic poets were all dash. John Neal, in his earlier novels, exaggerated its use into the grossest abuse — although his very error arose from the philosophical and self-dependent spirit which has always distinguished him, and which will even yet lead him, if I am not greatly mistaken in the man, to do something for the literature of the country which the country “ will not willingly,” and cannot possibly, “let die.” > > Without entering now into the why, let me observe that the printer may always ascertain when the dash of the MS. is properly and when improperly employed, by bearing in mind that this point represents a second thought — an emendation. In using it just above I have exemplified its use. The words “an emendation” are, speaking with reference to grammatical construction, put in apposition with the words “a second thought.” Having written these latter words, I reflected whether it would not be possible to render their meaning more distinct by certain other words. Now, instead of erasing the phrase “a second thought,” which is of some use — which partially conveys the idea intended — which advances me a step toward my full purpose — I suffer it to remain, and merely put a dash between it and the phrase “an emendation.” The dash gives the reader a choice between two, or among three or more expressions, one of which may be more forcible than another, but all of which help out the idea. It stands, in general, for these words — ”or, to make my meaning more distinct.” This force it has — and this force no other point can have; since all other points have well-understood uses quite different from this. Therefore, the dash cannot be dispensed with. > > It has its phases — its variation of the force described; but the one principle — that of second thought or emendation — will be found at the bottom of all. (I may be approaching Alzheimer’s age, but I did recall reading something like this in Poe 25+ years ago, found it within a few minutes in my copy of _Poe: Complete Works_ despite that it was buried in _Marginalia_. I then Googled to find the text on-line.) I confess to perhaps overusing the dash in these forums — perhaps in memory of Poe. I usually write " – ", the macro for dash used by _nroff_ and/or _LaTeX_, but may start switching to the special dash character. But please PLEASE do not do what many Dopers do-don’t they know what an emdash is?-and use an unspaced hyphen to represent a dash as I’ve done in this sentence.