# Commemoration of the start of World War 1 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 4, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816 "2014-08-04T20:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pdunderhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@pdunderhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdunderhill)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/1 "2014-08-04T20:21:53Z")
One minutes lights out, save for a candle. At BST 23.00, 100 minutes from now. Peter ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/2 "2014-08-04T23:37:10Z")
That loud concussive rumbling you hear just over the horizon is only a thunderstorm… But we remember what was done Over There… The world may never be “safe for democracy,” but democracy still does manage to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/3 "2014-08-05T01:54:18Z")
Didn’t the centennial anniversary occur last week? The war started when Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia on July 28, 2014. August 4 is the 100th anniversary of the British entry into the war. Certainly a date worth commemorating but the British need to stop mocking Americans for our supposed “the war didn’t really start until we joined in” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/4 "2014-08-05T05:21:03Z")
When did Germany declare against France? That’s what makes it a “World War.” Until that point, it’s just an Austrian/Serbian war; if it could have been limited to a regional conflict, we wouldn’t remember it today at all. (How many of us remember the Prussian/Austrian war?) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/5 "2014-08-05T06:58:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > When did Germany declare against France? August 3. But Germany had declared war on Russia on August 1, which made it a war between great powers. The irony is that Germany supposedly declared war on Russia and France in defense of Austria-Hungary. But Austria-Hungary wasn’t at war with either of these powers. It had only declared war on Serbia. The subsequent Russian mobilization was directed against Austria but neither country had crossed the line and declared war on the other. So you technically had two parallel wars going on: a small one between Austria-Hungary and Serbia and a larger one between Germany and Russia, France, and Britain. Austria-Hungary finally caught up and declared war on Russia on August 6. Serbia declared war on Germany the same day. France and Britain declared war on Austria-Hungary on August 12. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/6 "2014-08-05T15:00:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > August 3. But Germany had declared war on Russia on August 1, which made it a war between great powers. . . . That’s the date I prefer to use as the start. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/7 "2014-08-05T15:50:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > the British need to stop mocking Americans for our supposed “the war didn’t really start until we joined in” attitude. I’ve never heard of that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/8 "2014-08-05T16:54:42Z")
Let’s see: it’s the 100th anniversary of the beginning of WWI, and next spring will be the 150th anniversary of the end of Civil War and the 70th anniversary of V-E Day in WWII, with the 70th anniversary of the end of WWII next August. Also, early next year will be the 50th anniversary of LBJ escalating the war in Vietnam. As Tom Lehrer said 50 years ago, a good year for the war buffs. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/9 "2014-08-05T17:15:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Certainly a date worth commemorating but the British need to stop mocking Americans for our supposed “the war didn’t really start until we joined in” attitude. **carnivorousplant**"I’ve never heard of that. " I get it quite frequently from colleague at the university, usually in the context of WWII, admittedly (Mr Boods went ballistic when he first clapped eyes on the WWII monument the Americans put up in Bognor Regis, as it gives the dates of the war as 1941-1945). The correct response to ‘Ah yes, Yanks late again, I see’ or variations thereof: ‘We were just waiting for you to wear out Mr Hitler for us.’ At least it works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/10 "2014-08-05T18:17:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > August 4 is the 100th anniversary of the British entry into the war. That’s what looked to be commemorated yesterday, not the “start” of WWI. I’d expect a similar event over here on April 6, 2017. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/11 "2014-08-05T19:29:22Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > **carnivorousplant**"I’ve never heard of that. " > > I get it quite frequently from colleague at the university, usually in the context of WWII, admittedly (Mr Boods went ballistic when he first clapped eyes on the WWII monument the Americans put up in Bognor Regis, as it gives the dates of the war as 1941-1945). > > The correct response to ‘Ah yes, Yanks late again, I see’ or variations thereof: ‘We were just waiting for you to wear out Mr Hitler for us.’ > > At least it works for me. I’ve heard it of WWII. “They are overpaid, over sexed, and over here.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/12 "2014-08-06T00:09:49Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > . . . The correct response to ‘Ah yes, Yanks late again, I see’ or variations thereof: ‘We were just waiting for you to wear out Mr Hitler for us.’ . . . Grin! Nice one! A variant I heard during the Cold War was, “The Americans felt so bad about showing up late for the last two world wars, they’re making sure they’re early to the next one.” ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/13 "2014-08-06T01:25:34Z")
Well a little known fact is that the first shot fired in WW1 was in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/14 "2014-08-06T05:49:59Z")
I have trouble not being angry at Great Britain and France for getting the US involved. They knew they were about to lose and engineered the Lusitania incident and the Zimmerman note. I often wonder if we fought on the right side or not. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/15 "2014-08-06T06:07:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I have trouble not being angry at Great Britain and France for getting the US involved. They knew they were about to lose and engineered the Lusitania incident and the Zimmerman note. I often wonder if we fought on the right side or not. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/16 "2014-08-06T06:12:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I have trouble not being angry at Great Britain and France for getting the US involved. They knew they were about to lose and engineered the Lusitania incident and the Zimmerman note. I often wonder if we fought on the right side or not. I’ve heard theories about the Lusitania but the Zimmerman telegram is a new one. How exactly did the British engineer it? All they did was break the German code and pass the message on the the United States. If that counts as engineering the American entry into the war, then the Germans deserve most of the credit for having written the original message. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/17 "2014-08-06T08:21:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I have trouble not being angry at Great Britain and France for getting the US involved. They knew they were about to lose and engineered the Lusitania incident and the Zimmerman note. I often wonder if we fought on the right side or not. As to the “Lusitania” incident, although it inflamed passions, it was not an immediate trigger for the US to enter the war (it happened in 1915, after all). The announcement of unrestricted submarine warfare on the part of Germany was more influential. And regarding the Zimmermann telegram, there you are wrong, unless by “engineering” you mean “gave the US a very important decrypted telegram that showed German treachery towards them” (when Zimmermann was appointed Foreign Minister for the German Empire in November 1916, Woodrow Wilson felt it portended hope for a negotiated settlement of the war, and there were newspaper headlines in the US talking about “OUR FRIEND ZIMMERMANN”, with an article saying that this was ‘one of the most auspicious omens for the future of German-American relations’. ) Besides, any doubts that the telegram was authentic were dispelled… _by Zimmermann himself_. Quoted from the book “The Code Book”, by Simon Singh (emphasis mine): “Although there was little doubt among the American people that they should retaliate, there was some concern within the US administration that the telegram might be a hoax, manufactured by the British to guarantee American involvement in the war. However, the question of authenticity soon vanished when Zimmermann publicly admitted his authorship. _ **At a press conference in Berlin, without being pressured, he simply stated, ‘I cannot deny it. It is true’.** _”. So – the Zimmermann telegram was genuine, its contents were very relevant for the US, and what the UK did was simply to pass it to the US. Was that extremely convenient for the UK in order to ensure that the US would enter the war? But of course! However, the UK did not have to “engineer” anything there. The Germans managed to shoot themselves in the foot all by themselves, compounding the whole thing by the inexplicable confession of Zimmermann in a press conference, which took away all doubts. Link to the relevant passages of “The Code Book” follows: > **[kakopa.com - This website is for sale! - kakopa Resources...](http://kakopa.com/geo/zman.htm)** > > This website is for sale! kakopa.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, kakopa.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for! (as an aside, I cannot recommend “The Code Book” enough. It is an EXCELLENT book on the subject of cryptography throughout history. For those interested in a _very_ in-depth -albeit somewhat dated in points- text on the subject, I recommend “The Codebreakers” by David Kahn, all of almost a thousand pages of it 🙂 first published in 1967, was re-issued in 1996). ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/18 "2014-08-07T04:27:40Z")
Well I guess I was wrong about the Zimmerman note. We were always told it was a British ploy to get the US involved. Just shows history books can lie. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/19 "2014-08-07T11:36:57Z")
What history book did you read that in? I have never heard that idea in my life before reading this thread. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816/20 "2014-08-07T12:30:00Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What history book did you read that in? I have never heard that idea in my life before reading this thread. Add me to the list. I always knew that the Zimmermann telegram was a genuine document and an amazing show of German recklessness and incompetence. They _should_ have known that their communications with their diplomatic outposts in the Americas were compromised, as the underwater cables that connected Germany directly with other continents outside Europe had been cut by the British as soon as the war begun. All German communications going out of Europe went via neutral Sweden… But those lines were very obviously compromised, not least because, to go to the Americas, the messages had to finally go… Through British-controlled cables (!!) Who in their right mind will not automatically assume that _anything_ sent won’t be listened to? Were the Germans so confident in their own codes that they assumed the British would be unable to break them? That is the height of recklessness. NEVER assume that your enemy won’t be able to break what you send… You will be justified in doing so ONLY if you employ one-use key cryptography with random keys that are the same length as the message and are used _only once_. But properly managing that particular kind of cryptography is extremely difficult, and _any_ shortcuts you take will open avenues for your enemy to break through (for example, the VENONA decrypts were possible because, although the Soviets were supposed to use single-use keys for their diplomatic communications, they ended up recycling keys for convenience… And that was enough for the US crypto services to decode a big bunch of very important messages). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commemoration-of-the-start-of-world-war-1/694816.md?page=2)