…please don’t mischaracterize my position. I never said I was “offended.” I’m not sure my opinions are that extreme. I don’t share your opinion that the comment was “innocuous”: innocuous is a subjective word and in my humble opinion I don’t think suggesting a woman “pluck her eyebrows” is an innocuous comment at all. Plenty of people think telling a “woman to smile” is innocuous. Plenty of other people happen to think otherwise.
I’ve stated that I didn’t report that post nor do I want the rules changed. I’ve commented here to give context to the original complaint, that’s all.
Well, as the original “offender” I guess I should chime in.
Clearly it didn’t strike me as an offensive comment, or I wouldn’t have made it. I can sort of see the analogy between saying “I wish she’d pluck her eyebrows” and saying “Smile” – but I think there’s a big difference because the first is just an expression of what I’d prefer, in a place where the person in question is highly unlikely to ever read it, while the second is an order, usually delivered directly to someone’s face.
The thing about that actress’s eyebrows it that I find them distracting. They’re thicker than usual (for a female actress in our time and culture), which is emphasized by the color contrast with her hair. So in scenes where they focus in closely on her face, which is usually at emotionally taut moments, when the actress is supposed to be conveying anger/loss/fear/unhappiness/whatever…instead of looking at her expression I find myself focusing on her eyebrows instead.
And I fall into the camp that the physical appearance of an actor IS part of the job. If the character is supposed to be a typical female college freshman, experiencing life outside her home for the first time, it would break illusion if the actress playing her were in her sixties and looked it. I’d expect people to comment on that casting choice.
Or, take the Netflix series Longmire. In the books it’s adapted from, Henry Standing Bear is a 6’ 4" tall immensely strong man. His size and strength is frequently brought up, especially in the many times he is called on to back up – or rescue! – the lead character. In the series he’s played by Lou Diamond Phillips, who obviously doesn’t match that description. There were plenty of comments about that when the series premiered. Were those offensive? Size-ist, maybe?
This isn’t a human rights activist giving a speech at the UN. It’s an actor. Actors are paid to be looked at. Their appearance is part of their skill set, and is perfectly valid to comment upon. Even in the thread someone said “Josh Dallas is yummy,” which passed without complaint.
Seems to be to be a very good direction to be taking Moderation of image-bashing on all levels.
For example. I’m a 56 year-old man with wrinkles and graying hair.
Actor Robert Redford is starring in the upcoming feature film, " The Old Man & The Gun ".
In accordance with the guidelines currently being enforced on the SDMB, it is entirely reasonable for me to be able to enjoy threads in Cafe Society- or anywhere else in SDMB- regarding this film and/ or Mr. Redford without having to read remarks about his age, physical appearance, wrinkles, hair and so on.
I have as much right to enjoy threads on this message board as anyone else without having to battle ageist remarks.
I thank the Moderators in advance for enforcing these policies with complete equanimity regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or age.
I am 54. I could not give less of a shit if someone mentioned Redford being old, because he is in fact old. Why is mentioning that upsetting? I mean I doubt it would come up, but if he was cast as a thirty year old I’d expect his age would be brought up.
…you’ve just cherry-picked a sentence out of context. Of course I talked about the character. I was making a point about the actress. The character isn’t dependent on any particular physical trait: so there is no need to constrain the selection of the actress because of any particular physical trait either.
…would you think it would be appropriate to say in a thread about “Crazy Ex Girlfriend” that “Rachel Bloom’s character would be improved if she just smiled a bit more?”
Would it be appropriate in real life to tell an actress you just met “you might get more roles if you plucked your eyebrows?”
Do you think that actresses who don’t pluck their eyebrows should get less work?
You do realize that this is your problem, and not Melissa Roxburgh’s problem right?
You don’t want her eyebrows plucked because they’ve cast an actress too young to be a police detective with her experience.
You want her to pluck her eyebrows because you find them distracting.
They aren’t distracting because “it isn’t realistic for police detectives to have eyebrows like Roxburgh’s.”
They are distracting because Roxburgh doesn’t fit your idealised vision of what an actress on TV is supposed to look like.
Michaela Stone isn’t a character from a book. The only basis for comparison you have for the character is with the internalised beauty standards that you have in your head. I work with a lot of actors and models in this industry. I am well aware of the pressures that actors and models are under to “conform” with what some would regard as “traditional beauty standards”. Roxburgh has a similar look to Cara Delevingne. She is a perfectly normal human being.
…a key component in “mansplaining” is that you “comment on or explain something to a woman in a condescending, overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner.” My arguments to StarvingButStrong are identical to the arguments I made upthread to Ellis Dee, Mean Mr Mustard, and to DrDeth. I didn’t say anything inaccurate. Nothing was oversimplified. If you thought my comments were “condescending” or “patronizing”, well yeah, people say that to me a lot. But its mostly men who say that to me, so I’m an “equal opportunity offender.”
I had no idea that StarvingButStrong was a woman, but now that you feel it appropriate to inform me (and some people online would prefer not to have this information revealed) I would have said exactly the same thing. Because I was addressing the words StarvingButStrong posted, no more than that.
:: narrator-“I did not do this.”
My God, somebody wrote an OP on a messageboard and I responded with my thoughts.
Just a reminder that I haven’t called for comments like this to be banned or moderated. I don’t think I’ve said anything in this thread that is unreasonable. If I’ve said something you disagree with I’d much prefer you argue with what I actually said rather than throwing out cheap ad hominem.
Except looks do have a lot to do with an actresses career, and it’s not objectifying to note that a certain actress is beautiful in a thread about a television show that said actress is on. Nikki Haley is an ambassador. What do looks have to do with her job? Zero. Bone’s modding on that post was on point. You can call it hair-splitting if you like, I call it common sense.
This has been said before, and it doesn’t feel quite right to me. Is there an assumption that all actors are putting their beauty or sexuality on display, and are therefore fair game? Doctor Who is hardly that kind of role. What if an actor is playing a female ambassador in a movie, does that make it appropriate to talk about how hot she is?
I don’t think the relevant distinction is whether the person one happens to find “hot” is an ambassador or an actor. We all like to gossip sometimes about who we find sexy, but we can surely find other social contexts to do that. I think it’s more that there’s a strong consensus that we don’t want SDMB to be a place for that kind of salacious commentary at all, because we want this to be a more inclusive and respectful community.
So it seems to me that the question men should be asking ourselves before commenting on the appearance of women on SDMB is not “is she fair game”. In any context it’s “what’s my motivation for posting this.” We can surely discuss an actor’s appearance if it’s a bona fide discussion of whether she’s physically suited to an acting role. Although perhaps we might want to avoid a discussion of who’s most suited to play a stripper or a prostitute. Maybe a discussion of genuinely aesthetic aspects of appearance is okay, but there’s a pretty fine line there. But I think the point is, if you feel the urge to share with the world who you find sexually attractive, that doesn’t make you a bad person or a misogynist per se, just a normal human being - but choose to go and have that conversation somewhere else.
…I’m glad you feel so strongly on this topic (that you didn’t think we should be talking about) that you’ve responded to my posts with such a succinct, coherent, and devastating series of rebuttals. I look forward to your future efforts: “sarcasm is unbecoming”, “your mamma dresses you funny” and “bow-ties are not cool.”
ATMB is not the place to get snippy with each other. Treat others with respect while in this forum.
Since the OP seems to have been sufficiently addressed, I am going to close this before anyone steps too far over the line and earns themselves a warning. If anyone feels that more needs to be discussed here, just send me a PM and we can discuss re-opening this.
But its mostly men who say that to me, so I’m an “equal opportunity offender.”