# Commercial Establishment Refusing to Provide Message They Object to **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-establishment-refusing-to-provide-message-they-object-to/769860 "2016-10-27T17:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-establishment-refusing-to-provide-message-they-object-to/769860/161 "2016-11-05T21:01:49Z")
past edit window: I see I was pretty much ninja-ed in the entirety of my post by **Miller**. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-establishment-refusing-to-provide-message-they-object-to/769860/162 "2016-11-06T01:39:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is a matter of degree. A cake with two men on it is not the exact same thing as one with a man and a woman on it. :dubious: If a man named Frank is marrying a woman named Lee, would it be reasonable to expect the baker to put “Frank and Lee” on the cake? If so, then if a man named Frank is marrying a man named Lee, what’s the justification for saying the baker can refuse to put “Frank and Lee” on the cake? In this case, the cake with two men’s names is indeed the exact same thing as the cake with a man’s name and a woman’s name. A baker can certainly refuse in general to provide a certain **type** of product, e.g., a cake with any political or religious message whatsoever. But if the baker’s in the business of supplying the public with wedding cakes with the names of the bridal couple, then I think that trying to claim a cake with the names of two people who happen to be men is somehow a different “type” of product from a cake with the names of two people who happen to be a man and a woman is a very, very feeble argument. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-establishment-refusing-to-provide-message-they-object-to/769860/163 "2016-11-11T18:51:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: If a man named Frank is marrying a woman named Lee, would it be reasonable to expect the baker to put “Frank and Lee” on the cake? > > If so, then if a man named Frank is marrying a man named Lee, what’s the justification for saying the baker can refuse to put “Frank and Lee” on the cake? > > In this case, the cake with two men’s names is indeed the exact same thing as the cake with a man’s name and a woman’s name. EXCEPT that’s not what this is about. It is about having to put “Support Gay Marriage” on a cake - not a couple of names. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-establishment-refusing-to-provide-message-they-object-to/769860/164 "2016-11-11T19:07:34Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > EXCEPT that’s not what this is about. It is about having to put “Support Gay Marriage” on a cake - not a couple of names. If you read the thread, much of it was about trying to distinguish just where to draw the line between what should be obligatory under anti-discrimination, and where the baker’s right to free speech is paramount. We discussed both cases - just decorating the cake with names, figures, etc; and explicit generalized political statements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-establishment-refusing-to-provide-message-they-object-to/769860.md?page=8)