# Commercial pilots: Is there a protocol for this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125 "2003-09-27T06:07:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/81 "2003-09-29T09:50:17Z")
> [@](#): > > **…what should I do?** How about growing up? The world’s a scary place sometimes, no one owes it to you to make things easy, and if you get where you’re going with your ass intact then you best be grateful. Seriously, I’m wondering if your point of view is what people mean when they complain about how schools these days spend too much time teaching self-esteem at the expense of performance. Because you seem to hold your right to comfort above all other considerations, and that just isn’t reality. Reality is they got there; it would have been great if the pilot had been sufficiently composed to talk to the passengers, but that ain’t what happened. So be it. OTOH, I know we’re not supposed to be pulling up chairs, but I have to say I’ve really enjoyed this thread - I learned so much from you pilots! Thank you for taking the time to post your well-crafted replies! As a passenger I’ve been in some humdingers (including a rough landing in a small plane wherein the pilot jumped out as soon as we stopped rolling & came back with a Sheriff who informed us that the plane was too heavy to make the next leg of the journey and so some passengers WOULD be LEAVING the flight - you betcha I volunteered!). Oh, yes, and a landing that was aborted twice - that time the pilot did make an announcement afterwards wherein he cursed the air traffic controllers at some length. Finding out that we had come close to a disaster wasn’t welcome news, but it also didn’t change the central and overriding fact that we HAD LANDED with POSTERIORS PRESERVED. Shit, as an extra bonus **Mr. B** even gave those damn lyrics I’ve never been able to get straight! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/82 "2003-09-29T10:18:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Extraneous \* > Would some pilot care to quote the relevant part of FAR (Part 61) regarding the responsibility of the PIC? That’s going to be really hard, dude, since Part 61 is about what you need to qualify for a pilot license (technically, it’s a “certificate”), not about responsibility of the pilot. THAT’s in Part 91. I think the airlines have some additional stuff, but since that’s not the type of flying I’m not going to elaborate on that. I _think_ that’s in Part 121 and 135, but don’t quote me on it. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/83 "2003-09-29T10:36:24Z")
> [@](#): > > So, I get on a plane, the crew shows calloused indifference to my terror, and I am thereafter too afraid to ever board another plane. > > There is no recourse? NO! SHUT UP!!! I am sick to death of people who think that the world is made to serve them. The pilot got you down very safely under difficult circumstances, and your thought is to lie about his state of alleged inebreation. I thought I would never say this to anyone, even in the Pit, but you’re making me sick. Stop it! Grow the Freak UP! The world does not owe you either a living or a bed of roses. Good Lord, what do you expect out of life? Have you no shame? Be a man (especially if you are one), and suck it pickin’ up. Something happened that was disconcerting. It happens. It gets dealt with. It can be hard. But it’s not the other person’s fault, who had just as much at stake as you did. He may have had more kids to support. You are seriously saying that you want to sue the airline because THEY DIDN’T EXPLAIN IN SIMPLE LANGUAGE TO YOU WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE FACT? If that’s the case, and I’ve been reading this, and I’m almost positive it is, I might just quit coming back to this thread. Some people aren’t worth the time. NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU. This is not like abortion, or tax cuts, or the rights of Palestinian refugees. NO ONE AGREES WITH YOU. This should be a gigantic clue, but it seems to only bouce of your head. Oh, and you’re not good at reading apparently, either: > [@](#): > > Where did that happen? This co-pilot has never been identified, nor has a summary of his/her experience level or condition been established. I quote Broomstick: > [@](#): > > You may or may not be interested to know that flight deck positions are a matter of seniority, not experience. On many occasions I had more experience than the Captain but he had been with the company longer. That’s how it is. I didn’t say that this co-pilot had more hours, but that it wouldn’t be unusual, and you certainly don’t know anything about it. THE CO-PILOT IS DEEMED MORE THAN ADEQUATE FOR THE OPERATION OF THE AIRSHIP BY DEFINITION. He /She has been retained by the airline as a competent pilot under all circumstances. He possibly has more hours in the air than you do at the keyboard. Step off. > [@](#): > > I would think that a plaintiff who is too scared to fly, as evidenced by an epic train trip, might just be worth listening to. Add the airline’s ignoring said plaintiff’s obvious distress, and I could see a case being made for culpability. Your honor, I am in fact suing the postmaster general, as the fact that a lightning bolt struck the post office while I was in it has made me too afraid to buy any stamps. I give as evidence my late bills, which were waiting for stamp delivery from my internet order. I think it was the postmaster’s duty to inform me exactly the conditions that caused the bolt to strike that building, so I could feel safe there again, and I seek damages for pain and suffering. What do you mean, “A fine”? “Frivolous”? But I have emotional scars!! Put me down! I’m an American citizen! I have rights! I have the right to be happy! You haven’t heard the last of this! I’ll [slam] ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/84 "2003-09-29T10:48:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Extraneous \* > So, I get on a plane, the crew shows calloused indifference to my terror, and I am thereafter too afraid to ever board another plane. > > There is no recourse? Well, when I got tired of being afraid to fly I took flight training and eventually earned a license. I was still scared the first time I got back on a jet - hell, I fear-puked twice at the boarding gate, no joke - but I (eventually) overcame the fear. Is _everybody_ going to do this? No. As I said, I have no problem with people take a train or bus. Plenty of folks are horribly afraid to fly and they’ve never been off the ground - should they sue the airlines just for existing? Yeah, I can understand folks being afraid to fly. But they have a _choice_ about whether to face and overcome their fears, or to let their fears control them. > [@](#): > > The pilots have said that they are not required by FARs to confort terrified passengers. You are correct. We are not _obligated_ to comfort the terrified, although it’s usually in our best interests to do so. Also, some of us are decent human beings who would not _intentionally_ scare the crap out of people. > [@](#): > > **Mr. B** - thank you for the point about a standard of care - my question (however murky) was exactly this point - is there a standard of care applicable to an airline, and if so, what is it? > Is the standard of care REALLY just “still breathing, no (serious) visible marks”? I’m not **Mr. B** , but what the hell - Yeah, basically, that IS the standard of care. > [@](#): > > Where did that happen? This co-pilot has never been identified, nor has a summary of his/her experience level or condition been established. There is no way to know what the co-pilot’s quialifications are _in this particular situation_. However, a pilot’s status at an airline is determined solely by _senority_, the time spent at the airline. Although not what I would call a _common_ circumstance, it is quite possible to have a co-pilot with more total time and even more time in type than the plane’s captain. American Airlines has a _co-pilot_ who used to be a space shuttle commander who has more skill and experience than any other pilot in their line-up - he’s _still co-pilot_ because he hasn’t been there long enough to be captain. A captain from a failed airline who joins another airline starts again as co-pilot _regardless_ of the amount of experience or status at his prior employer. But even if it was the co-pilot’s first day on the job with the airline, he will STILL have many more than the 1500 hours total time quoted earlier. A “rookie airline pilot” is still a highly trained and compentant professional. Even outside of the airlines, who is in command is not dependent solely on total hours of experience. I have flown as pilot in command on flights where my “co-pilot” has decades more experience and thousands of more hours than I do - I am _still_ pilot in command and **I** am the one who would be held legally responsible for any problems on that flight. (Needless to say, I do make use of my partner’s greater experience whenever possible - that is one of the ways you become a better pilot). Granted, it’s not as formal a process as the airlines, but a ship can only have one captain and it’s a good idea to figure out who that is before you take off. > [@](#): > > are you saying that any litigation I might file (should I choose to go Fed court) would, necessarily, be blatantly frivilious, and therefor cause for sanction? I would think that a plaintiff who is too scared to fly, as evidenced by an epic train trip, might just be worth listening to. Flight carries certain inherent risks. If you board an airplane there is a risk you’re going to get the crap scared out of you. IF the pilot did something stupid it might fall under the “flying in a hazardous manner” part of the regs but doing a go-around after a fish-tailling set-down would probably not qualify. That’s usually seen as a sensible way to salvage a bad situation. > [@](#): > > One last time - If you don’t want me suing the bastards, what should I do? Negotiate for vouchers? Are you kidding? Remember me? The guy who’s too afraid to ever fly again? You want me to settle for vouchers? Tell your complaint to the airline. If everyone on a flight bitches yes, the airline will do something. YOU may not see it - but the airlines DO listen to passengers, they DO have an interest in statisfying customers (if they don’t, they don’t stay in business) and if a pilot continually generates complaints something will be done. IF, however, a lone passenger out of 100 bitches - no, it’s not likely they’ll pay attention. After all, 99 people _didn’t_ complain. And if you’re that 1 in 100, ask yourself if your reaction is porportional to the event. The airlines are legally obligated to get you safely from point A to point B. That’s it. The rest is a matter of customer service - very important to a successful, long-term business but not mandated by the FAA or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/85 "2003-09-29T12:10:10Z")
Here’s what you should do, **Extraneous**. _Get over it_. I have been frightened by many things in my life, and it never once occured to me that I have some sort of constitutional right not to be scared. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/86 "2003-09-29T12:15:57Z")
**Extraneous** , I guess you’d be too scared to drive if you ever got in a car accident. Coz’ you have a WAY better chance of dying in a fiery car wreck than anything ever happening to you in a plane crash. Jeez…did you grow up in a freakin BUBBLE or something? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/87 "2003-09-29T12:37:15Z")
> [@](#): > > The theory of “they were too busy” has been discussed and abandoned. Abandoned by whom? Not the pilots, and not anyone else as far as I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/88 "2003-09-29T13:46:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Extraneous \* > **Mr. B** - thank you for the point about a standard of care - my question (however murky) was exactly this point - is there a standard of care applicable to an airline, and if so, what is it? > Is the standard of care REALLY just “still breathing, no (serious) visible marks”? > > Tangent: what if there is no standard of care, or the parties cannot agree on a standard of care? Surely we don’t say that no suit can proceed unless there is a precedent. My forte is criminal law, so I welcome corrections from the civil side of the house… but yes, you have to be able to point to some authority that imposes a duty of care before you may sue. If this were not so then a person could be sued for violating a duty that he had no way of knowing existed. “Some authority” doesn’t necessarily mean “some previous case.” But it does mean that you have to be able to point to some law, rule, regulation, accepted and required practice – SOMETHING – that mandates a particular course of action, and then show that the action wasn’t taken, and that negligence was the cause. Nobody in this thread seems to think you can do that. While admittedly this is not an exhaustive search of all relevant authority on air travel, I do think it’s rather compelling that not one poster here has identified a breach of duty. I am no civil law expert, but I can’t see a winning case here. I’m not sure I can see a colorable claim here. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/89 "2003-09-29T15:13:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by suezeekay \* > A few more small facts: Once they were on the ground the steward came on the PA and amongst other things commented that “at least the second landing was better.” The steward told my son, when he asked, that the captain was a “training pilot” and the co-pilot was at the controls on the first attempt. Also, when they disembarked, the door to the flight deck remained closed. > > I still think, just for the future peace of mind of the passengers, they should have at least been given a short explanation for what happened. When you’ve just been scared out of your wits you need some closure so you can just put it behind you and go on. And I don’t think you have to be delicate to be scared when something unexpected like that happens and you have no knowledge whether or not it’s an emergency situation. They always say look at the stewardesses for a clue, but my son said they all looked scared, so that added to the fear level. > > I disagree that scared passengers should be lumped in with demanding, arrogant, asses who want to take off in a thunderstorm, or some such. It’s not the same situation. Wait a minute - so someone **did** come on the PA after all? Your OP said: > [@](#): > > The stewardesses did not say anything; the captain did not come on the intercom. When they disembarked nothing was said and no one offered any explanation. And your son’s complaint is that they didn’t also explain **why** they needed a second attempt? It sounds to me like whoever made the announcement thought that was sufficient, and was trying to joke about it like the standard “whoa, easy now” type of commentary when you get a bumpier-than-usual landing. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/90 "2003-09-29T15:21:37Z")
**Enderw24** and **Cervaise** , there’s now a very convenient way to let a poster know that he/she’s being an obstinate bastard. Just post the link to the [If 20 People Say You’re A Fuckwit …](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=212882) thread. Are you listening **Extraneous**? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/91 "2003-09-29T17:15:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferret Herder \* > **Wait a minute - so someone did come on the PA after all?** > [@](#): > > _By Mr. B_ \*\* – This bears repeating. If you’re going to craft an OP, at least try and leave it intact so that we all out here in Cyberspace can feel important.\*\* > > _overture, curtain, lights, this is it, your night of nights, no more rehearsing and nursing our parts, we know ev’ry part by heart…_ > > > [@](#): > > > > _suezeekay_ > > A few more small facts: Once they were on the ground the steward came on the PA and amongst other things commented that “at least the second landing was better.” The steward told my son, when he asked, that the captain was a “training pilot” and the co-pilot was at the controls on the first attempt. Also, when they disembarked, the door to the flight deck remained closed. > > [ul] **=** [/ul] > > > [@](#): > > > > _paraphrasing by Mr. B_ > > My OP is a wet Kraft bag. **Spiff** , you’re coming down unfairly on **Extraneous**. There’s nothing wrong with feeling upset about poor treatment or even _perceived_ poor treatment. Additionally, there’s been nothing posted here that denies the legitimacy of a plaintiff’s claim of “pain and suffering.” Dare I mention Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? **Extraneous** is failing by simply ignoring the machinery involved in bringing forth a successful civil case: one must prove the airline owes a soothing PA after the hard touch ‘n’ go or one’s claims are simply worthless. This is **Extraneous** ’s burden here. If (s)he cannot meet this, yet keeps on keepin’ on, why then (s)he might just be a _fuckwit_. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/92 "2003-09-29T17:16:34Z")
EXTRANEOUS – > [@](#): > > You are a lawyer. Fine. Do the research. In this case, that means read the damned thread. I read the thread, the whole thread, and nothing but the thread. I always read the whole thread before I post. > [@](#): > > The theory of “they were too busy” has been discussed and abandoned. Heh. Abandoned by you, you mean. Here’s the distinction I’m drawing: There’s no time to do it during the incident. Do they have a duty to explain _after_ the incident, when everything’s okay? No. Why would they? It would be _nice_ if they would do so, but they in all likelihood do not have a duty to do so. IFAIK, there’s no duty to ensure nobody ever gets scared on an airplane, especially when a not-insignificant number of people are _always_ scared on airplanes. > [@](#): > > As to other remedies - as stated, I do not think a complaint will remedy the situation, and the FAA has no basis (FARs = Federal Aviation Regulations = the stuff the FAA can enforce) for action. Hence, litigation. But you see, you are _assuming_ complaints will not work. And you _assume_ the FAA has no basis for action. You _assume_ there’s no other proper agency to which to make a complaint. As it happens, two minutes’ worth of internet research shows this is largely incorrect. Of course, there’s no way to know exactly how the airline would handle a complaint, but that’s where to start. General complaints regarding airline service can be directed to the Aviation Consumer Protection Division of the Department of Transportation. Complaints regarding airline _safety_ are received, reviewed, and, where warranted, investigated by the FAA. My point is that litigation should _always_ be a last resort. That’s where you end up when nothing else works; it’s not where you start. It’s expensive, protracted, time-consuming, and emotionally draining, and for these reasons should never be the _first_ thing you do. > [@](#): > > And, until you can say there is no cause of action, don’t yell at me for suggesting that there is one. You should not be encouraging people to bypass the usual channels for making unhappiness known, in order to incur the time and expense of filing suit, when you (a) don’t know that the usual channels won’t work and (b) don’t know any grounds for suit exist. And contrary to your assertion, it is not incumbent on me to prove that absolutely no grounds for suit exist, but rather incumbent on you to explain that reasonable grounds for suit do exist – since suing was your suggestion. Your two guesses so far – intentional infliction of emotional distress, and breach of some unknown, unspecified duty – do not appear workable, as several people have told you. And I’m not yelling at you. Nothing about this thread or our exchange pisses me off in the least. It’s just that, as a lawyer, I hear too much bitching about the misuse of the justice system, and I truly believe that suggestions like yours are one of the chief reasons why. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/93 "2003-09-29T18:09:25Z")
Jodi, We need more lawyers like you! Regards, glee ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/94 "2003-09-29T18:44:00Z")
**Extraneous** , Gee, am I ever lucky I stumbled on this thread. I have a question regarding my right to sue, and after reading this thread I have determined that you are the only one who can help me. Friday night, someone was shot and killed about 20 yards from my apartment around 3am. I haven’t slept more than 20 minutes at a time since then, and I’m scared in my own home. Should I sue the muderer, the gun-maker, the police for not being there, or should I just GROW THE FUCK UP, DEAL WITH THIS AS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LIVE IN THE CITY AND MOVE THE FUCK ON ALREADY? Thanks for your time. -lightingtool ---
**Author:** ![Extraneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/0ea827/32.png) [@Extraneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Extraneous)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/95 "2003-09-29T18:52:12Z")
OK, I quit - happy now? and a quibble, **Mr. B** _almost_ got it right. It’s actually: * * * Overture, curtains, lights, This is it, the night of nights No more rehearsing and nursing a part We know every part by heart * * * (Bugs Bunny Show theme, for the unintiated) p.s. I wear the “obstinate” label with pride. Thank you all for your kins words ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/96 "2003-09-29T18:59:03Z")
**Mr. B** - I swear I did see your highlighting of this late addition. 🙂 I just wanted to re-emphasize it for some people (_cough_) who might still be ignoring it, and to ask if the fact that no **explanation** of **why exactly** the plane had to try again was the issue; that the usual joking apparently wasn’t sufficient for the couple mentioned by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/97 "2003-09-29T19:04:22Z")
EXTRANEOUS, I say this in all seriousness: Knowing when to throw in the towel is a mark of intelligence. You don’t have to admit you’re wrong, or further insist you’re right, you just have to have the sense to know when to stop. One of the things you’ll discover if you continue to post around here is that a lot of us don’t have that level of sense, or don’t have the self-discipline to actually do it (give up the argument) when we know we really should. Arguing for argument’s sake is fun, but it’s easy to lose perspective on when to let things go, especially in the Pit. Keeping that perspective is a mark in your favor. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Extraneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/0ea827/32.png) [@Extraneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Extraneous)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/98 "2003-09-29T19:42:41Z")
**Jodi** - Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/99 "2003-09-29T23:34:00Z")
Gracious Extraneous. Gracious. And thanx. It’s been a fun ride. I’ve learned a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125/100 "2003-09-30T02:07:13Z")
Ok, I’ll go ahead and say that it is an admirable thing to know when you’re licked, and admit it. Thanks for not just pushing this until everyone just wrote you off. I still disagree with what you said as much as it seemed I did, but it is certainly something not to have the intellectual dishonesty to refuse someone’s point out of spite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commercial-pilots-is-there-a-protocol-for-this/204125.md?page=6)