# Common Core Math **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118 "2018-09-10T19:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/1 "2018-09-10T19:27:12Z")
This has probably been covered already but… WTF is this bullshit!!! It seems like math for people who can’t grokk math. Can’t they just put all the slower kids in a different class and teach them common core? Question: 7\*3 7+7+7=21 WRONG 3+3+3+3+3+3+3=21 RIGHT Has common core eliminated the commutative property of multiplication? Also acceptable is making 7 rows of three dots (bit not making 3 rows of 7 dots) and then counting the number of dots. What the fuckity fuck fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/2 "2018-09-10T19:37:11Z")
Dude, what decade are you living in? Also, who told you that was Common Core? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/3 "2018-09-10T19:37:33Z")
Depends on the context and how one wishes to integrate mathematics into young peoples’ lives. 7\*3 == 3+3+3+3+3+3+3 == 21 3\*7 == 7+7+7 == 21 They equal the same thing, yes. But having seven three dollar bills is obviously not the same as having three seven dollar bills, even when your total is 21 dollars. Unless, of course, you’re suggesting that the commutative property is never introduced or explored at all in CC math. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/4 "2018-09-10T19:38:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > WTF is this bullshit!!! Angry idiots who have no idea what “common core” actually entails, and are pissed off at badly-written worksheets. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/5 "2018-09-10T19:45:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Dude, what decade are you living in? I’m not sure what you’re getting at. This is my first exposure to Common Core Math. I didn’t realize how dumbed down it was. > [@](#): > > Also, who told you that was Common Core? The school district, I think. Am I wrong somehow because other posters seem to think that this is indeed representative of common core. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/6 "2018-09-10T19:47:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re getting at. This is my first exposure to Common Core Math. I didn’t realize how dumbed down it was Sorry, just this complaint is like 10 years old now 🙂 > [@](#): > > The school district, I think. Am I wrong somehow because other posters seem to think that this is indeed representative of common core. This is the answer: > [@friedo](#): > > Angry idiots who have no idea what “common core” actually entails, and are pissed off at badly-written worksheets. Who exactly told you that what you were looking at is mandated by the Common Core standards? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/7 "2018-09-10T19:49:03Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Depends on the context and how one wishes to integrate mathematics into young peoples’ lives. > > 7\*3 == 3+3+3+3+3+3+3 == 21 > > 3\*7 == 7+7+7 == 21 > > They equal the same thing, yes. But having seven three dollar bills is obviously not the same as having three seven dollar bills, even when your total is 21 dollars. > > Unless, of course, you’re suggesting that the commutative property is never introduced or explored at all in CC math. OK, so explain to me why 7\*3 need be be seven groups of 3 rather than 7 repeated three times? You are creating an arbitrary convention and calling it math. And in the process you are ignoring the commutative property. One of the first and most fundamental conceptual mathematical notions. AFAICT, this is waving the white flag on math and just dumbing it down to the lowest possible denominator. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/8 "2018-09-10T19:49:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re getting at. This is my first exposure to Common Core Math. … May I ask what your exposure to it entailed? Also, at least the kiddies are counting dots, there’s a logic to that. In my day Sr. Doris just made us memorize them and recite them aloud. Over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/9 "2018-09-10T19:50:18Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Angry idiots who have no idea what “common core” actually entails, and are pissed off at badly-written worksheets. So explain to me why one is wrong and the other is right? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/10 "2018-09-10T19:51:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So explain to me why one is wrong and the other is right? First you explain why you think that is representative of the Common Core standards. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/11 "2018-09-10T19:59:06Z")
As others have said, I think you are confusing one badly written worksheet with the whole of Common Core. [Common Core Third Grade](http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/3/OA/) requirements for multiplication: > [@](#): > > Represent and solve problems involving multiplication and division. > CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.A.1 > **Interpret products of whole numbers, e.g., interpret 5 × 7 as the total number of objects in 5 groups of 7 objects each. For example, describe a context in which a total number of objects can be expressed as 5 × 7.** > CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.A.2 > Interpret whole-number quotients of whole numbers, e.g., interpret 56 ÷ 8 as the number of objects in each share when 56 objects are partitioned equally into 8 shares, or as a number of shares when 56 objects are partitioned into equal shares of 8 objects each. For example, describe a context in which a number of shares or a number of groups can be expressed as 56 ÷ 8. > CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.A.3 > Use multiplication and division within 100 to solve word problems in situations involving equal groups, arrays, and measurement quantities, e.g., by using drawings and equations with a symbol for the unknown number to represent the problem.1 > CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.A.4 > Determine the unknown whole number in a multiplication or division equation relating three whole numbers. For example, determine the unknown number that makes the equation true in each of the equations 8 × ? = 48, 5 = \_ ÷ 3, 6 × 6 = ? > Understand properties of multiplication and the relationship between multiplication and division. > C**CSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.B.5 > Apply properties of operations as strategies to multiply and divide.2 Examples: If 6 × 4 = 24 is known, then 4 × 6 = 24 is also known. (Commutative property of multiplication.)** 3 × 5 × 2 can be found by 3 × 5 = 15, then 15 × 2 = 30, or by 5 × 2 = 10, then 3 × 10 = 30. (Associative property of multiplication.) Knowing that 8 × 5 = 40 and 8 × 2 = 16, one can find 8 × 7 as 8 × (5 + 2) = (8 × 5) + (8 × 2) = 40 + 16 = 56. (Distributive property.) > CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.B.6 > Understand division as an unknown-factor problem. For example, find 32 ÷ 8 by finding the number that makes 32 when multiplied by 8. > Multiply and divide within 100. > CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.C.7 > Fluently multiply and divide within 100, using strategies such as the relationship between multiplication and division (e.g., knowing that 8 × 5 = 40, one knows 40 ÷ 5 = 8) or properties of operations. By the end of Grade 3, know from memory all products of two one-digit numbers. > Solve problems involving the four operations, and identify and explain patterns in arithmetic. > CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.D.8 > Solve two-step word problems using the four operations. Represent these problems using equations with a letter standing for the unknown quantity. Assess the reasonableness of answers using mental computation and estimation strategies including rounding. The only part that comes close is the part I bolded in red. The intent of the section is to ground the symbols that are being taught to real world situations. That should be applied to word problems and not just a number problem with no context. Overall, I like the direction common core is going. It integrates algebraic concepts throughout, rather than springing on them in grade 9. It also strives to improve number sense and finding strategies as opposed rote algorithm application. ETA: The bolded green part covers teh commutative property as well. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/12 "2018-09-10T19:59:11Z")
The fact that one lousy teacher demands that 7x3 be 3+3+3+3+3+3+3 and not 7+7+7, does not mean all teachers teach the same way, nor does it mean that “common core” math demands this. Anyway, what does 7 times 3 mean if not “7 times” the number “3?” ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/13 "2018-09-10T20:02:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK, so explain to me why 7\*3 need be be seven groups of 3 rather than 7 repeated three times? You are creating an arbitrary convention and calling it math. {…} IIRC later on, algebra and such, you apply commutative property at the risk of getting the whole equation wrong. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/14 "2018-09-10T20:04:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, just this complaint is like 10 years old now 🙂 I’m just learning what common core is now. So in the last ten years have we seen improvement in the US global math rankings? NOPE! We have been sliding even further behind. > **[Brat: U.S. math and science scores rank "at the bottom" of industrialized...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/nov/02/dave-brat/brat-says-us-students-scoring-bottom-math-and-scie/)** > > The debate between two professors – David Brat and Jack Trammell – vying for the 7th District Congressional seat would o > [@](#): > > This is the answer: So then why are we sliding further behind those countries that are using the old outdated antiquated math? > [@](#): > > Who exactly told you that what you were looking at is mandated by the Common Core standards? The teacher told me that this is the methodology required by the school district. Apparently learning the multiplication table is a waste of time. Memorization generally is not regarded as learning. Memorization is essential to learning. In much the same way that muscle memory slows down the game or slows down a fight (see martial arts), brain memory also slows down the math game and lets you operate at a higher level. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/15 "2018-09-10T20:05:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … This is my first exposure to Common Core Math. … > [@bobot](#): > > May I ask what your exposure to it entailed? > … I only ask because you weren’t clear about where you saw this. It could have been on a child’s homework assignment. It could have been on rightwingoutrage dot com, how do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/16 "2018-09-10T20:07:51Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > May I ask what your exposure to it entailed? > Also, at least the kiddies are counting dots, there’s a logic to that. In my day Sr. Doris just made us memorize them and recite them aloud. Over and over again. My kid just started bringing home homework that included this stuff. I don’t know if Common Core gets less stupid later on. Once you understand what multiplication is, there is really no need to keep making graph papers full of dots and counting them out. After that it is in fact about memorization. My kid’s math homework looks like an art project. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/17 "2018-09-10T20:08:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Question: 7\*3 > > 7+7+7=21 WRONG In order for me to be properly outraged, I’m going to need to see the context in which this is marked “WRONG.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/18 "2018-09-10T20:08:51Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Angry idiots who have no idea what “common core” actually entails, and are pissed off at badly-written worksheets. That is true scottsman bullshit. If that is the way it is being taught then that is common core. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/19 "2018-09-10T20:10:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … > Question: 7\*3 > > 7+7+7=21 WRONG > > 3+3+3+3+3+3+3=21 RIGHT > … Well if they actually grade it like this then I can see why you’re upset. Do they really mark the first answer as wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118/20 "2018-09-10T20:11:08Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Anyway, what does 7 times 3 mean if not “7 times” the number “3?” Why can’t it mean “7 three times”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-core-math/821118.md?page=2)