# Common courtesies that apparently aren't so common **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735 "2013-10-09T00:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/81 "2013-10-10T12:54:03Z")
> [@saje](#): > > Apologize when you’re in the wrong. And mean it. > > The other day I was one of those woolgathering in the grocery aisle while I stared at the shelves (trying to remember if I needed crackers or not or something equally stupid). I realized that I was totally in the way when a woman irritatedly cleared her throat just before asking to get by. > > I pulled my cart over saying “oh I’m _so_ sorry, here I am taking up the whole aisle for no good reason. Where _is_ my brain today?” She looked at me like I was speaking another language for a moment, then went from scowling to smiling, and said “oh honey it’s ok, I’m really not in such a hurry” and went off smiling. The corollary to this is to accept an apology when offered. I’m amazed sometimes at how poor some people are at this. An apology just isn’t enough for them somehow. It’s a crowded world, we’re gonna bump into each other from time to time. Don’t make a federal case out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/82 "2013-10-10T13:02:02Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I’d like to hear more about these observations. What have you seen that demonstrates to you that these men want to do worse things than not stand for women when they enter a room? Please, no. Don’t let her hijack this lovely thread with her observations about men. I work with two people who never, ever accept any responsibility for their actions, nor do they ever apologize. It drives us batty. Apologies do mean something, especially if you fix the problem after. Then again, their apologies probably wouldn’t mean jackshit but at least it might help a little. Someone mentioned cleaning the top of the sink handle. I’d be perfectly happy if people would just bother to clean up the mess of water they’ve left all around the sink. Do you really think someone else is going to come clean that up? Now when I lean against the counter I get wet. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/83 "2013-10-10T13:31:07Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I used to be big on this one myself, but typically I’m in the self-checkout express lane and I’ve discovered that about 90% of the time the people with the fewest items have the least idea how to use the self-checkout machines, and if they’ve got produce it’s a total disaster - I’ve given a cut to someone that slows the line down horribly. Yes. My God some people can be clueless at these machines. When I go to Costco I get stuck behind people in the self check-out with entire carts full of merchandise. While there is no stipulation of “10 items or fewer” or anything like that, common sense and courtesy should dictate that you don’t go to the self check-out with a full fucking cart people. Oh, and here’s an idea, as you’re waiting in fucking line for 10 minutes, get your goddamed membership card ready. “Hey it’s my turn finally, guess I’ll need to go fishing around in my purse for a couple of minutes to find my membership card now…” I came here to get a bag of bacon bits! Come on! Mostly, at the grocery store, people have become aware how to use these machines and it’s not so bad. However, when I go to Canadian Tire (it’s a home supply/car parts/sporting goods/awesomeness store) people are dumber than a bag full of hammers. I suppose it’s because it’s mostly men who aren’t accustomed to grocery stores. Scan, put back in cart. Scratch head and wonder why next item won’t scan. And God forbid you should ask for help as you stand there repeatedly and cluelessly trying to scan your next item. Pay? “Oh, let me fumble through my wallet now and try to decide which card to use.” For some reason there’s a separate swipe for credit and gift cards than there is for chip-and-pin bank cards, now we’re into Abbot and Costello territory. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/84 "2013-10-10T13:45:39Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I came here to get a bag of bacon bits! Come on! This is when you beat them to death with your bacon bits. IME, problems with the self-checkout almost always amount to user error, and a complete reluctance to read anything on the screen or take note of anything around oneself! ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/85 "2013-10-10T14:17:25Z")
Stay out of the elevator “goal crease” until everyone has exited the car. THEN you may proceed to enter it. Hold the door for someone who is clearly heading that way and is within 100 or so feet. If you’re that late and can’t wait, loosen up your schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/86 "2013-10-10T14:19:43Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What women?? Not me. I absolutely LOVE it. IMHO if you want a man with really good manners, you have to find a guy over 70. Younger men have been brainwashed and emasculated by a couple of generations of women to a point where common courtesy/respect has come to be defensively labeled as patronizing. > > I had a very young friend (guy age 23) who used to do this only a few short years ago-- stood up when a woman came back to the table, even in the student cafeteria at the community college. I was dazzled, not only by the old-fashioned manners, but that he had the [del]balls[/del] confidence to do it in front of his peers, male and female, who probably laughed. My mother would claw her way up out of her grave and stalk me if I didn’t stand and hold doors and chairs for a lady. She taught me that a gentleman should expect to do such things for a lady, and a lady should expect such things from a gentleman. It may be old-fashioned, but it is common courtesy in my book. **ThelmaLou** , I’m 64, btw - you don’t to quite hit the Viagra Ninjas to find it. And yes, I have been chewed out by some younger women who have been raised to think it is demeaning. Very sad. But what is even sadder is when a young woman holds a door for me. Now _that_ makes me feel old. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/87 "2013-10-10T14:21:14Z")
> [@Orville\_mogul](#): > > swim across the Pacific Ocean in a bear costume, etc, but please, tell me how it went afterwards. :smack: I made it, thanks for asking. Sorry for not posting sooner, my arms have been a little sore. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/88 "2013-10-10T14:26:19Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I’d like to hear more about these observations. What have you seen that demonstrates to you that these men want to do worse things than not stand for women when they enter a room? It’s the observation that the men who complain the loudest that they don’t perform common courtesies for women because they have been emasculated by feminists (like that was ever our agenda) are the ones that wouldn’t have been courteous to women anyway and become utter jerks when the restraints of western law and culture are removed. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/89 "2013-10-10T14:30:37Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > It’s also physically impossible for you to each help the other with their chair as you each sit down. > > I wonder what the origin of men standing when a woman comes in? Like they’re at her service and are ready to spring and get/do something for her? Or she’s delicate and they shouldn’t be sitting when this weak creature has to stand? Tradiationally one rose when someone of importance entered the room. Standing when a women entered was a way of acknowledging that she was not a servant or a prostitute, but someone worthy of respect. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/90 "2013-10-10T14:40:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Tradiationally one rose when someone of importance entered the room. Standing when a women entered was a way of acknowledging that she was not a servant or a prostitute, but someone worthy of respect. Okay. Why would one do that today? ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/91 "2013-10-10T14:44:40Z")
> [@Casey1505](#): > > Hold the door for someone who is clearly heading that way and is within 100 or so feet. If you’re that late and can’t wait, loosen up your schedule. 100’? I hope this is a typo. It’s a 10’ radius, max. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/92 "2013-10-10T14:52:16Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > 100’? I hope this is a typo. It’s a 10’ radius, max. Nope, around 100’ is not excessive, IMO. I have the five seconds to wait, but expect the person I’m waiting on to step lively. Seems a fair trade-off. Courtesy begets courtesy. You let the elevator door close on me when I’m 15 feet from it, you’ll be close enough to hear me call you a dick. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/93 "2013-10-10T14:53:00Z")
> [@Casey1505](#): > > Stay out of the elevator “goal crease” until everyone has exited the car. THEN you may proceed to enter it. x10 for a subway car ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/94 "2013-10-10T15:06:53Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > Okay. Why would one do that today? Because there are still plenty of women employed as servants and prostitutes today. In some business circles, prostitutes as entertainment aren’t uncommon. At a business meeting standing when a woman arrives it makes a powerful statement that the women is there for professional reasons other than the world’s oldest profession. And she’s not the maid there to clear the table and refill glasses either. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/95 "2013-10-10T15:09:28Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because there are still plenty of women employed as servants and prostitutes today. In some business circles, prostitutes as entertainment aren’t uncommon. At a business meeting standing when a woman arrives it makes a powerful statement that the women is there for professional reasons other than the world’s oldest profession. And she’s not the maid there to clear the table and refill glasses either. Bullshit. I guaran-goddamn-tee you that the posters here aren’t standing when women enter the room to show that they aren’t prostitutes. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/96 "2013-10-10T15:17:05Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > Bullshit. I guaran-goddamn-tee you that the posters here aren’t standing when women enter the room to show that they aren’t prostitutes. Bullshit, the posters here aren’t everyman in the world, I guaran-goddamn-tee you that. And I can guaran-goddamn-tee you that there are many places and cultures in the world that if the men don’t stand when you walk into a business conference, it’s because they consider you a secretary (or less) and not worthy of their time or respect. It may be even be a tactic to insult you or keep you off balance. Furthermore, not a single male poster here indicates he stands when a women enters the room for any reason other than common courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/97 "2013-10-10T15:20:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Bullshit, the posters here aren’t everyman in the world, I guaran-goddamn-tee you that. And I can guaran-goddamn-tee you that there are many places and cultures in the world that if the men don’t stand when you walk into a business conference, it’s because they consider you a secretary (or less) and not worthy of their time or respect. It may be even be a tactic to insult you or keep you off balance. Furthermore, not a single male poster here indicates he stands when a women enters the room for any reason other than common courtesy. I forgot for a moment how very skewed your view of society is. Won’t make that mistake again. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/98 "2013-10-10T15:21:17Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I disagree that the lack of common courtesy/respect has anything to do with emasculation. My observation has been that these men are the ones that would like to do considerable more insulting things to women, but because of the rise of feminism are prevented from doing those things, so discourtesy has become the only way they can insult women without fear of punishment or reprisal. Ah, so close, yet so far. Yes, they do it because of the rise of feminism. But that’s because they don’t want to offend those who would be offended by it. They were doing it as a courtesy, after all, and it’s not very courteous to do something people don’t like you to do. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because there are still plenty of women employed as servants and prostitutes today. There may be, but assuming that you might possibly mistake the businesswoman for a prostitute is itself an insult. You do really need to get over automatically interpreting all practices you don’t like as having nefarious intent behind them. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/99 "2013-10-10T15:29:56Z")
The above, BTW, is my answer to this thread. The courtesy of at least trying to come up with a good reason someone does something before assuming nefarious intent. Or, as I put it in my profile, “When in doubt, assume the most positive possible interpretation of someone’s actions.” If you’re wrong, at least you won’t be offended and mad at them all day. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735/100 "2013-10-10T15:42:29Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Bullshit, the posters here aren’t everyman in the world, I guaran-goddamn-tee you that. And I can guaran-goddamn-tee you that there are many places and cultures in the world that if the men don’t stand when you walk into a business conference, it’s because they consider you a secretary (or less) and not worthy of their time or respect. It may be even be a tactic to insult you or keep you off balance. Furthermore, not a single male poster here indicates he stands when a women enters the room for any reason other than common courtesy. One time in a business meeting I stood up when a woman entered the room, but when I extended my hand for a handshake she recoiled and shrieked as though she’d been burned. I was taken aback at first, but then I realized that she must be a filthy gutter-whore who didn’t want to infect me with her diseases. We got along pretty well after that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-courtesies-that-apparently-arent-so-common/670735.md?page=6)