# Common Held Beliefs or Ignorance about a Film That Drives You Crazy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [August 13, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524 "2023-08-13T19:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/221 "2023-08-17T17:23:01Z")
In the book there’s no question that Deckard is human - the book asks the question “Can humans become as immoral as replicants?” (Yep). The movie wonders if replicants can be as good as humans - not quite the same thing ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/222 "2023-08-17T17:31:50Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@Pavelb1](#): > > > > Slightly different subject. The whole assasination attempt “Michael Corleone sends his regards” foiled by cop thing is just a mess. So Michael just let him believe Michael was behind it? I’ll bet he could have convinced him he (Michael) had nothing to do with it. > > It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but as I recall, Pentangelli approached Michael at the christening party and asks for his help defending his territory in New York. Michael doesn’t help, but asks Pentangelli for help in his plan to cozy up to Hyman Roth. While carrying out that request, Pentangelli is almost killed. Do I have that about right? > > Which makes Michael quite a slimy bastard. He wants to appeal to Pentangelli’s loyalty to not testify against him; but where was his loyalty to Pentangelli when it was needed? My biggest issue with the movie is that Frankie shouldn’t exist. If it was Clemenza like it was originally supposed to be there would be a much richer back story. It’s all about Michael trying to make the family legit even though he has to do horrible things to get there. The family’s future isn’t in New York it’s in Cuba and Vegas. Clemenza I mean Frankie is the old way that Michael is trying to leave behind. Of course we know it doesn’t work which makes this a tragedy. I also think it would have worked better without Danny Aiello’s adlibbed line. They weren’t trying to leave Frankie alive it doesn’t make sense to say it was from Michael if Frankie was dead. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/223 "2023-08-17T17:34:01Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > Slightly different subject. The whole assasination attempt “Michael Corleone sends his regards” foiled by cop thing is just a mess. So Michael just let him believe Michael was behind it? I’ll bet he could have convinced him he (Michael) had nothing to do with it. They thought Frankie was dead. He was on an army base getting ready to testify before Tom found out he was alive. Michael didn’t have a chance to convince him of anything ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/224 "2023-08-17T17:40:53Z")
Boy, I need to see this movie. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/225 "2023-08-17T17:49:51Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > In the book there’s no question that Deckard is human - the book asks the question “Can humans become as immoral as replicants?” (Yep). The movie wonders if replicants can be as good as humans - not quite the same thing Really, the Replicants in the book were portrayed in a very unsympathetic manner. Based on their behavior, it was obvious why humans were scared of them, and wanted controls on where they were allowed to be. The book was clearly written from the point of view of being fearful of what new technologies might do to us puny humans caught up in all this change. The movie comes much more from the later attitudes of “The humans were the real monsters all along”, and the Replicants were merely the most recent victims of us monstrous humans. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/226 "2023-08-17T18:39:45Z")
Yeah. There were some cases in the books I think where humans got to be as cynical and hostile as replicants, but all the replicants were jerks ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/227 "2023-08-17T18:41:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What happens to Shane at the end of the movie? What happens to Josey Wales, standing there, dripping blood? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/228 "2023-08-17T18:50:05Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@Sitnam](#): > > > > Han shot first. > > That belief and/or ignorance that Han wouldn’t shoot first is held by the director. Is it possible that an artist doesn’t understand his own art? Absolutely! We could fill the Internet with what George Lucas doesn’t know about the Star Wars universe. In fact, we have. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/229 "2023-08-17T19:15:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What happens to Josey Wales, standing there, dripping blood? Y’know, I just hoped he ended up dead one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/230 "2023-08-17T19:25:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Y’know, I just hoped he ended up dead one way or another. I always understood the ending that Josie finally got what he always wanted - to be left alone. When Fletcher gave the message that he’d stop chasing Josie if Josie stopped, then that settled it. Josie went to live back on the ranch with Sondra Locke and his new “family” and lived happily ever after. He could put his demons to rest. Or at least as well as one can live in the old west. Maybe he got kicked in the head by a horse, or got typhus, smallpox, diphtheria, was killed by Indians, died from a rattlesnake bite, accidentally stabbed himself with a knife, had an ice block fall on his head… ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/231 "2023-08-17T19:33:21Z")
IMO, Shane dies. He’s been shot in the gut. He’s also a relic of a more violent age and it’s time for him to ride off into the sunset. Or into those foothills from which you can see a passing bus in the opening credits. Shane, to Fletcher: Your kind of days are over. Fletcher: And what about yours, gunfighter? Shane: The difference is, I know it. FYI, I have the book, and like you said, his fate is ambiguous. One difference from the movie is it’s Wilson that wounds him, not Fletcher’s brother. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/232 "2023-08-17T20:42:16Z")
The point of Blade Runner is not that Deckard is human. Nor is the point that he’s a replicant. The point of the movie is that it doesn’t matter if he’s a human or a replicant. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/233 "2023-08-17T20:59:06Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Han shot first Han didn’t shoot first, because “shooting first” implies that there was more than one shot fired. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/234 "2023-08-17T21:11:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The point of Blade Runner is not that Deckard is human. Nor is the point that he’s a replicant. The point of the movie is that it doesn’t matter if he’s a human or a replicant. That was always my take and it doesn’t bother me one way or the other. What we do know is that the most poetic and heartfelt musings on the nature of life and death came from the replicant, who _also_ was the only one who acted with any real mercy. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/235 "2023-08-17T21:41:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The point of the movie is that it doesn’t matter if he’s a human or a replicant. This sounds right to me. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/236 "2023-08-17T22:36:43Z")
Dont forget quicksand ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/237 "2023-08-17T23:30:48Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > always understood the ending that Josie finally got what he always wanted - to be left alone. When Fletcher gave the message that he’d stop chasing Josie if Josie stopped, then that settled it. Josie went to live back on the ranch with Sondra Locke and his new “family” and lived happily ever after. He could put his demons to rest. Sondra’s character died in childbirth later that year. Josie hooked up with Rose, the dancehall floozie. And they started a little town called Las Vegas, out in the middle of the desert. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/238 "2023-08-17T23:45:34Z")
Funny, I didn’t think Josie was Mormon. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/239 "2023-08-18T11:10:32Z")
Concur ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/240 "2023-08-18T12:25:06Z")
Apparently, many believe endless tedious remakes of Dune are preferable to the making of Ringworld. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524.md?page=13)