# Common Held Beliefs or Ignorance about a Film That Drives You Crazy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [August 13, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524 "2023-08-13T19:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/81 "2023-08-14T17:47:07Z")
If Laszlo escaped from a concentration camp, there would have been a Reich-wide BOLO issued for him. Since he was lucky enough to make it to Unoccupied France, it’s possible the Vichy authorities would have turned a blind eye to his presence until November 1942, when the Germans executed Operation ANTON in response to the Allied invasion of Northwest Africa. _If they existed,_ Letters of Transit would have been something like Exit Visas, which I had to get each time I wanted to leave the Russian Federation when I was working and living there back in the '90s. To get one, you had to tell your employer where you were going, when you planned to leave, and when you planned to return. I couldn’t even spend a week in the Baltics or Finland unless I had one, and I had to present it both leaving and coming back. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/82 "2023-08-14T18:21:56Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Not true. But, if anything, Carpenter made his film so that it acts very much like a sequel to the original. The film takes a lot of stuff from the 1951 movie… > The Carpenter film is far more faithful to Campbell’s story, but the film also pays homage to the earlier film. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/83 "2023-08-14T19:06:55Z")
Love of movies doesn’t follow any trackable path of reason. I think I’ve cried. . . EVERY TIME I’ve watch Shawshank. And I’ve probably seen it 8 times or so. No lie. And I’ve only seen Return of the King. . . maybe twice but I didn’t make it all the way through the 2nd time. And I don’t care to see it again. My opinion of Peter Jackson’s adaptation have not improved over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/84 "2023-08-14T19:55:27Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > You mean to tell me that Dottie drops the ball on purpose, breaking the hearts of her entire team and the entire fanbase? I agree completely. The Dottie character simply would not deliberately tank, not for any reason. The movie fully established her drive, determination, and integrity. To suggest that was all a mirage?—nope, nope, nope! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/85 "2023-08-14T20:06:13Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > The Nazis can’t be everywhere in Unoccupied France because it’s, well, _unoccupied._ If a Vichy official impressed or intimidated by the letters of transit lets Laszlo leave, he’s gone. I don’t think so. **Captain Renault:** My dear Ricky, you overestimate the influence of the Gestapo. I don’t interfere with them and they don’t interfere with me. In Casablanca I am master of my fate! I am— **Police Officer:** Major Strasser is here, sir! **Rick:** You were saying? **Captain Renault:** Excuse me. Later on, **Rick:** Now, you’ve got to listen to me! You have any idea what you’d have to look forward to if you stayed here? Nine chances out of ten, we’d both wind up in a concentration camp. Isn’t that true, Louie? **Captain Renault:** I’m afraid Major Strasser would insist. Not that they exist in the first place. > Much as we all love this movie, though, there are parts that, frankly, don’t make a great deal of sense. For example, um, why exactly is the runway wet in the climactic airport scene, when they’re in the Moroccan desert? > > Not that anybody cares. And besides, these few problems don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy mixed-up world, do they? One central error, though, three little words, conjures an idea so convincing and seductive, that it forms the impetus and backbone for the entire story, and reinforces the ways in which words can support journeys of all kinds. > > I’m Joe Janes of the University of Washington Information School. No, there are no such things as letters of transit, but why let that get in the way of a good story? The idea of documents to facilitate travel goes back at least as far as Bible times; in the Old Testament, Nehemiah asks King Artaxerxes for permission to travel and is given a letter “to the governors beyond the river” requesting his safe passage. 2500 years later, the language in your passport is effectively the same thing, stated as a request to other countries to allow the bearer to pass “without delay or hindrance,” though of course it is just that—a request, subject to the laws and occasional whims of the other side of the river. It’s a diplomatic nicety, part and parcel of a complex system of controlling the movement of people across, and occasionally within, borders. > > For a long time this was an informal, catch-as-catch-can system, not unlike Nehemiah. Nations were mostly kingdoms and domains, travel over great distances was uncommon and dangerous and only the noteworthy needed to ask for permission. The King’s License was required to enter or leave 11th century England, though clause 50 of Magna Carta guaranteed the right to come and go in 1215. For several decades, individual American states issued passports, which must have caused occasional amusement around the world; it was only in 1856 that the State Department was given exclusive authority to issue American passports. > … > The closest genuine document to a “letter of transit” is probably a “laissez-passer,” a safe conduct issued for one-way travel to the issuing country, sometimes for humanitarian reasons, but also to allow diplomats of newly enemy nations to leave after war is declared. But the actual letter of transit exists only in fiction, invented, seemingly quite casually, for the play and then adopted by Howard Koch in his mad scramble to concoct a screenplay for _Casablanca_, writing pages nearly as fast as they could be filmed. As the Peter Lorre character says, these letters would get the bearers out of the country: “Cannot be rescinded, not even questioned.” All well and good, but—he also says, in his exotic middle-European accent, that they’re “signed by General deGaulle.” Why, we are left to wonder, would the occupying Germans or even the collaborationist Vichy government care in the slightest about papers signed by deGaulle, who by late 1941 was in exile outside London? The printed screenplay suggests maybe he was supposed to say “Marshal Weygand,” a Vichy official of the time, though that’s hard to mistake for deGaulle. But c’mon—like it matters. > > Travel documents are interwoven into the fabric of the film. In the first line of spoken dialogue, the police dispatcher describes the murder of two German couriers carrying the letters of transit. The opening narration also highlights the importance of exit visas—which are uncommon but real, often used by governments such as Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan who fear emigration. In 1940s unoccupied France, exit visas were indeed difficult to acquire because nations such as Spain and especially Portugal were continually changing their requirements, opening and closing their borders, frustrating people who desperately wanted to flee to the promise of the New World. The first 10 minutes of the film are filled with talk of exit visas, letters of transit, and the immortal “Can I see your papers?” leading to a man shot in the street rather than betray the Free France literature in his pocket. > > The rest of the film is an increasingly intense search for those letters, against a backdrop of desperation [_Casablanca_ Letters of Transit podcast transcript](https://ischool.uw.edu/podcasts/dtctw/casablanca-letters-transit) MacGuffin. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/86 "2023-08-14T20:12:58Z")
> [@solost](#): > > So when the Signs aliens, who are presumably much more technologically advanced than us, land on Earth and walk around basically naked, with no protective suits or apparently any protection of any kind, and it turns out that water kills them unless it’s triple reverse osmosis filtered, it’s a stupid plot twist, I’m sorry. Slight hijack, but: this just now prompted me to rewatch the _Columbo_ episode where Ricardo Montalbán (a) is perfectly capable of engaging in up-to-the-minute pistol marksmanship, but (b) showily declares, after reminiscing about his glory days as a matador, that he’s going to step into the bullfighting ring once again with little more than a swirly cape… ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/87 "2023-08-14T20:30:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There are people who think [Oliver Stone’s “JFK”](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2011/apr/28/jfk-oliver-stone-john-f-kennedy) is a documentary, or at least [“emotionally accurate”](https://cinephiliabeyond.org/jfk/). A passing knowledge of the case would be enough to show it up as a steaming pile…as far as accuracy goes. However, it is still an excellent movie for those who can just go along for the ride, it is _really_ well put together. I do fully understand that for many that might be too much of an ask. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/88 "2023-08-14T21:03:01Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I have often heard that people thought Indiana Jones was immortal because he drank from the Holy Grail at the end of Last Crusade. > > The movie makes it clear you have to keep drinking from it and it can not cross the seal. We see him leave it behind. He obviously isn’t immortal. The framing device used in “The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles” suggests the Grail did for Indy what John Coffey would later do for Paul Edgecomb in _The Green Mile_. Not immortal but granted a longer than usual natural life. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/89 "2023-08-14T21:17:18Z")
The Grail cured Indy’s urinary tract infection? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/90 "2023-08-14T21:18:38Z")
nvm   ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/91 "2023-08-14T21:22:46Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > The framing device used in “The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles” suggests the Grail did for Indy what John Coffey would later do for Paul Edgecomb in _The Green Mile_. Not immortal but granted a longer than usual natural life. Did it? How old was Indy in that show? Did he credit the grail? ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/92 "2023-08-14T21:22:49Z")
And we’re somehow back to A League of Their Own. _Six Degrees of Tom Hanks Peeing_ ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/93 "2023-08-14T21:24:31Z")
I apologize, I misread the post; I’ve never seen Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. I am confused and it will happen to you when you get this old – mark my, um… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/94 "2023-08-14T21:26:17Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > How old was Indy in that show? Each episode was opened and closed by a 93-year-old Indy. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Old_Indiana_Jones_by_George_Hall.jpg/220px-Old_Indiana_Jones_by_George_Hall.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Old_Indiana_Jones_by_George_Hall.jpg/220px-Old_Indiana_Jones_by_George_Hall.jpg) I don’t believe anything was said about the Grail but I didn’t claim the Grail was directly credited for his long life, either. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/95 "2023-08-14T21:28:21Z")
Hell, I’m glad I didn’t know that, it would have taken some suspense out of the later films. In theory. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/96 "2023-08-14T21:29:10Z")
I wasn’t a huge fan of League of Their Own. Don’t read if you loved it. > **Summary** > > I kind of liked the first 20 minutes. The movie was being carried by Jon Lovitz up to that point. Consider that for a moment, Jon Lovitz carrying a movie… But then he left, Hanks came in, and aside from some impressive simulated urination he didn’t add much to the movie. I liked the idea of his character being based on Jimmy Foxx, one of the greatest baseball players of the pre-war era. Certainly the best all around player of the game in his time. He could and did play every position in the game. I’d like to see a movie based on his life. But I digress. > > My point here is that by the end of the movie I didn’t care if she dropped the ball on purpose or not, I was just glad it was over. Lori Petty as usual did alright. So I give her and Lovitz a thumbs up, thumbs down on Hanks, Davis, Madonna, and O’Donnell. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/97 "2023-08-14T21:41:41Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I apologize, I misread the post; I’ve never seen Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. I am confused and it will happen to you when you get this old – mark my, um… S’okay; my memory isn’t what it used to be, either. It’s been too long since I’ve seen the movies and forgot it was Henry, not Indy, who got shot. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/98 "2023-08-14T22:36:26Z")
The Weygand/DeGaulle confusion is because nowadays, few have ever heard of Weygand. The two names are similar (but different) in sound with the medial “g.” People who hear the name associate it with a name they do know. It’s similar to thinking Jimi Hendrix said, “'Scuse me while I kiss this guy.” Note that Lorre and director Michael Curtiz heard the line. Both were expatriates and certainly wouldn’t allow the name DeGaulle to pass. It’s be like if the line said, “signed by Winston Churchill.” Everyone would know it was a mistake and correct it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/99 "2023-08-14T22:41:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The Weygand/DeGaulle confusion You keep saying that like your answer is the Final Word. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/100 "2023-08-14T22:52:04Z")
Regardless of what’s said in the movie, Casablanca is not in the middle of the desert. It’s on the coast of Morocco, on the windward side of the Atlas Mountains. The climate is a lot like the one in Los Angeles. > **[Casablanca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca)** > > Casablanca, also known by its Arabic name Dar al-Bayda (Arabic: الدار البيضاء, romanized: ad-Dār al-Bayḍāʾ, \[adˈdaːru ɫbajdˤaːʔ\], lit.: "White House"; Berber languages: ⵜⴰⴷⴷⴰⵔⵜ ⵜⵓⵎⵍⵉⵍⵜ, romanized: Taddart Tumlilt), is the largest city in Morocco and the country's economic and business center. Located on the Atlantic coast of the Chaouia plain in the central-western part of Morocco, the city has a population of about 3.71 million in the urban area, and over 4.27 million in the Greater Casablanca, ... When push came to shove, the Germans would of course try to assert their authority. (Strasser is Luftwaffe, BTW. Not Gestapo or SD.) But at that stage of the war, they had a vested interest in not rocking the boat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524.md?page=6)