# Common Held Beliefs or Ignorance about a Film That Drives You Crazy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [August 13, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524 "2023-08-13T19:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/121 "2023-08-15T06:36:50Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Coppola made it a point never to show us how the Corleones actually make their money. We don’t see shopkeepers being extorted, how they obtained the corpse of a hooker they used for blackmail, or what they do to people who owe for gambling debts. Try explaining that to the horse. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/122 "2023-08-15T06:47:28Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > All this discussion of Signs has triggered one of my pet peeves- let me ask a question: what exactly makes you think that the monsters are aliens? My thoughts exactly. They aren’t aliens - they’re demons. The comparison to aliens is a deliberate choice because many of the phenomena attributed to aliens these days (lights in the sky, mutilated livestock, strange things happening in the corn) used to be attributed to the Devil in pre-modern times. It’s not water that hurts them - it’s holy water. The movie is a modern-day retelling of Job, with Mel Gibson losing his faith and cursing his life after his wife is taken from him, ultimately learning from the “swing away” sequence that there’s a greater purpose behind things that seem to be random chance. Those divine reminders, not the crop circles, are the eponymous signs. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/123 "2023-08-15T08:27:35Z")
There’s a weird misconception I see all over the place regarding the James Bond film The Spy Who Loved Me about how the American and British sub crews leave the Russian sub crews in their cells and thus allow them to die making them all guilty of murder. But this is entirely ignorance since you DO see Russian sailors, they just also happen to be wearing white sailor uniforms that look similar but not exactly the same as the British sailors. They even make a point to show one of the Russian sailors giving James Bond ammo during one of the shoot-outs as a way of showing the international cooperation going on at that point. The reason people seem to think this is because none of the Russian sailors are given speaking lines making it obvious they would be Russian. I’ve also heard people claim that the nudity in some of the James Bond intros (there’s a couple like in The Spy Who Loved Me where you can see bare nipples) was a mistake as it should have been in shadow and that HDTVs have “ruined” them by making the image too crystal clear and removing the impliedness of the nudity by making it overt, but people in the theaters would have been seeing it in basically HD as well right? There shouldn’t be any “upgrade” in visual quality from the original 35mm prints and the first 720/1080p HD releases ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/124 "2023-08-15T08:42:58Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > And of course the whole reason they tried to whack Vito in the first movie is because he refused to use his contacts to push heroin. Granted Vito says this is because his contacts (bribed officials) are willing to ignore gambling and prostitution but would come down on drugs Kind of like Nevada! ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/125 "2023-08-15T09:50:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Coppola made it a point never to show us how the Corleones actually make their money. Well, we see Vito whack Fanucci so he can continue to build his dirty business in New York in peace. > [@Odesio](#): > > We don’t see shopkeepers being extorted We see Vito extorting the landlord so that Signora Colombo can stay in her apartment. And Michael extorting Senator Geary pays dividends all over the place. > [@Odesio](#): > > how they obtained the corpse of a hooker they used for blackmail I think it’s pretty well implied that Al Neri murdered her. > [@Odesio](#): > > or what they do to people who owe for gambling debts Well, that’s because no one really had any gambling debts. But we do see a lot of other debts incurred to the Corelones that get paid one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/126 "2023-08-15T10:21:18Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How would the Gestapo have found Marion if they hadn’t followed Indy to Nepal? Best answer to the “Amy dilemma” I’ve seen, and the only one that really makes a dent in it, for me. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/127 "2023-08-15T10:32:56Z")
Speaking of _Signs_ and whether or not the creatures are aliens… there is a misconception that the creatures at the end of _A.I. Artificial Intelligence_ are extraterrestrials but they are actually robots. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/128 "2023-08-15T10:36:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Yes - by having her walk away from her team for the majority of the World Series. > > Dottie is clearly a conflicted player and sister. Obviously, as that’s one of the major themes of the movie. But despite the fact that you could shoot a 110 lb. Lori Petty-shaped rocket out of a cannon 90 feet into 7-foot tall Geena Davis and she wouldn’t bat an eye, let alone let go of a baseball, there actually is no answer to this question. The question is as unanswerable as the one at the end of “Inception” whether or not Cobb is in a dream or reality. It’s even left to the viewer to make up their own mind - it’s to realize that both answers are just as likely to be true, and it doesn’t matter what the actual answer is. Fair point re: Dottie (temporarily) bailing. I’d still say the character they established was all in, when she was in. If the filmmakers intended Dottie dropping the ball deliberately to be a reasonable inference, I’d say that overall it’s poor storytelling. If something foreshadowed it, say, a major plot point that Dottie struggled with her “win at all cost” orientation, that sometimes winning isn’t most important in a competition—well, that might set up an interesting “did she or didn’t she?” ambiguity. As it stands, we have a stoic, no-nonsense, intense competitor, one who hasn’t given a hint of any namby-pamby, “maybe winning isn’t really the most important thing” inclination. She seems to define the “fuck your feelings” archetype, at least within competition. I do agree that the movie does provide the opportunity for different interpretations. But as in all things, I think we can agree, my interpretation becomes the definitive one. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/129 "2023-08-15T10:55:15Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > I’ve also heard people claim that the nudity in some of the James Bond intros (there’s a couple like in The Spy Who Loved Me where you can see bare nipples) was a mistake [some people like it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrp0wJsXNEA) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/130 "2023-08-15T11:01:17Z")
“drive me crazy” is too strong but I certainly can’t go with the degree of confidence people have that Kevin Spacey’s character is _definitely_ Keyser Soze. I mean, he certainly _could_ be but it is equally possible that Soze is never seen at all or doesn’t really exist and is indeed a fairy story told to infant criminals. I think it is undeniable that Kint is the mastermind behind the events in the film but that doesn’t make him Soze. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/131 "2023-08-15T11:30:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think it is undeniable that Kint is the mastermind behind the events in the film but that doesn’t make him Soze. I don’t think that’s clear at all. For all we know Kint got away and this was some schlub they mistook for him. He was making everything up, nothing he says can be considered real. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/132 "2023-08-15T11:35:44Z")
Like at the end of _Dr. Strangelove_, when Slim Pickens rides the H-bomb to the surface, and then you see a bomb explode - how do we know that that was the same bomb? It could have been any H-bomb, dropped by any plane. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/133 "2023-08-15T11:52:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t think that’s clear at all. For all we know Kint got away and this was some schlub they mistook for him. He was making everything up, nothing he says can be considered real. Well we know that he was the only “Usual Suspect” survivor of the boat and that he was there and identified as a key figure by the badly burnt sailor. We also know that he was spinning a yarn, on the hoof, to the detective. Playing a part in order to distract and be able to be released. He is picked up by “Kobayashi” and certainly appears to be a person of substance. The bits that we can rely on don’t paint him as someone unrelated to the events. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/134 "2023-08-15T11:55:09Z")
Maybe the others are lying too. Nobody wants to take the heat. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/135 "2023-08-15T12:04:21Z")
Well, in any case, I think the one thing that we can both agree on is that his status as “Keyser Soze” is, at best, debateable. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/136 "2023-08-15T12:07:46Z")
Absolutely. It may be impossible to unravel the answer in that mess of entertaining lies. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/137 "2023-08-15T12:14:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Like at the end of _Dr. Strangelove_, when Slim Pickens rides the H-bomb to the surface, and then you see a bomb explode - how do we know that that was the same bomb? It could have been any H-bomb, dropped by any plane. There is one small plot hole you could cling to, if you want the film to have a happy-ish ending. Pickens’s plane is the only remaining bomber, and the President asks Premier Kissoff if the doomsday machine will be triggered if it manages to bomb its target. His reaction makes it clear that it would. However, the plane is leaking fuel and can’t reach its intended target, so they go for the nearest “target of opportunity”. It isn’t confirmed that bombing this new target will activate the doomsday machine. As I recall from reading the script, the crew of the bomber (called the “Leper Colony”) was meant to be multi-ethnic/-religious as something of a parody of the same trope in classic war movies. Let’s make sure that every race and religion gets to play their part in bringing about the end of the world! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/138 "2023-08-15T12:16:18Z")
I really need to start being less subtle with my whooshes. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/139 "2023-08-15T12:27:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > > > All this discussion of Signs has triggered one of my pet peeves- let me ask a question: what exactly makes you think that the monsters are aliens? > > My thoughts exactly. They aren’t aliens - they’re demons. This makes a lot of sense, actually. It’s reminiscent of another movie that was widely misunderstood at the end of it-- Spielberg’s AI. (spoilers ahead) At the end of the movie, after the human race had died off, what a lot of people thought were aliens were excavating a deep layer of snow and ice to recover artifacts of the dead race. But they weren’t aliens, they were advanced descendants of the autonomous robots that humans had created. They were the successors to us. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524/140 "2023-08-15T12:46:44Z")
A big one for me is people thinking the beings at the end of **AI: Artificial Intelligence** are “aliens”. It’s understandable because they have that standard skinny, bald, bug-eyed space alien look. But given the nature of the film, they are clearly meant to be highly evolved robots. > [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > In The Princess Bride, Vizzini isn’t trying to logically reason out which goblet has the poison in it. He was watching The Man in Black’s reactions to what he was saying. You’ll notice that The Man in Black tenses up whenever Vizzini says that the poison is in his own cup, and relaxes whenever he says that it’s in the other cup. From there, Vizzini just had to figure out whether The Man in Black was bluffing or double-bluffing (or more precisely, even-bluffing or odd-bluffing), which was something he was quite good at. > > Why would he tense up at all when he knows the poison is in both glasses? I always thought he gave it away by appearing impatient while Vizzini continued to talk on and on. Because he is smart enough to assume Vizzini is smart enough to notice if he wasn’t tensing up Vizzini would assume it’s in both glasses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-held-beliefs-or-ignorance-about-a-film-that-drives-you-crazy/988524.md?page=8)