# Common sense reasonable gun laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275 "2015-12-12T22:18:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/121 "2015-12-15T13:56:11Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I missed that one. Apologies, I stand corrected. I’m not going to get into a dick measuring contest with you on the number of times the NRA has supported some kind of weapons limitation versus the times the NRA has opposed. Thanks though because I won’t make hyperbolic comments about the NRA 100% never opposing a limitation again. There’s a difference between ‘hyperbolic’ and ‘the opposite of what actually happened’. I asked why ‘common sense’ gun control never seems to involve working with the NRA on proposals they support. You claimed that you “haven’t seen anything that the NRA supports that in any way shape nor form falls into a definition of gun control,” but they were the ones who pushed for the creation of the background check system in use today. That’s a huge, visible, major piece of gun control that gets used routinely and is involved as a major talking point for gun control groups today, it’s not some obscure technical change on a law that rarely even gets looked at. It’s amusing that discussing actual facts backed by cites is ‘dick measuring’ in your world, I’m not really sure what would count as ‘reasoned debate’. It’s also telling that you want to tally ‘times supported some kind of weapons limitation’ vs ‘times opposed;’ that’s not relevant to the thread, to my claim, or to your false assertion in response to my claim. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/122 "2015-12-15T14:02:08Z")
See, I’m going to give you antis a free piece of information: Gun owners are not a monolithic group politically. We have plenty of people in our own ranks who are willing to throw others under the bus as long as the particular type of guns they like aren’t banned. We refer to the ones who care only that they get to keep their hunting guns as “Fudds” for example. If you had even a basic grasp of firearms, you’d be able to exploit that. Instead, you spout nonsense and propose idiot laws. We look at you and realize that, given your ignorance, none of us are really secure and we vote together. You get smacked down time after time and don’t seem to learn from it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/123 "2015-12-15T16:02:36Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > See, I’m going to give you antis a free piece of information: Gun owners are not a monolithic group politically. We have plenty of people in our own ranks who are willing to throw others under the bus as long as the particular type of guns they like aren’t banned. We refer to the ones who care only that they get to keep their hunting guns as “Fudds” for example. If you had even a basic grasp of firearms, you’d be able to exploit that. Instead, you spout nonsense and propose idiot laws. We look at you and realize that, given your ignorance, none of us are really secure and we vote together. You get smacked down time after time and don’t seem to learn from it. This is why if you support gun rights, no matter what, you should always be a member of the NRA, among other targeted and local groups. You should vote single issue, and oppose all gun control measures. It’s a better strategic move. In the past, gun control folks tried to segregate their opponents, targeting only handguns, assuring hunters they would never come after their rifles. As that effort failed, and the Brady group had to rename themselves and move away from that losing issue, they then targeted “assault weapons”, and people started wising up that Brady was full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/124 "2015-12-15T16:07:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is why if you support gun rights, no matter what, you should always be a member of the NRA, among other targeted and local groups. You should vote single issue, and oppose all gun control measures. It’s a better strategic move. > > In the past, gun control folks tried to segregate their opponents, targeting only handguns, assuring hunters they would never come after their rifles. As that effort failed, and the Brady group had to rename themselves and move away from that losing issue, they then targeted “assault weapons”, and people started wising up that Brady was full of shit. I oppose all unacceptable legislation and that usually means working through the NRA. I have scaled back supporting them as an organization, though, due to the presence of high-profile asshole Ted Nugent on their board of directors. Until the organization distances themselves from him, we can be no more than allies of convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/125 "2015-12-15T16:16:03Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I oppose all unacceptable legislation and that usually means working through the NRA. I have scaled back supporting them as an organization, though, due to the presence of high-profile asshole Ted Nugent on their board of directors. Until the organization distances themselves from him, we can be no more than allies of convenience. I’m not a 100% fan of the NRA either for many reasons, but they are the biggest game in town and there is no sense in fracturing support. The greatest strength is when we all vote together, independent if we agree at the fringes. And Ted Nugent is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/126 "2015-12-15T18:53:45Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is why if you support gun rights, no matter what, you should always be a member of the NRA, among other targeted and local groups. You should vote single issue, and oppose all gun control measures. It’s a better strategic move. No, because the folks who run on a strong pro-gun platform are usually the ones who want to shut down the Government, ban abortion, tax the poor instead of the rich, cut all social services, defund schools, end environmental protections, etc. Sure, having guns taken away would be bad. Not being able to breath (like in Beijing) is totally unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/127 "2015-12-15T19:06:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, because the folks who run on a strong pro-gun platform are usually the ones who want to shut down the Government, ban abortion, tax the poor instead of the rich, cut all social services, defund schools, end environmental protections, etc. > > Sure, having guns taken away would be bad. Not being able to breath (like in Beijing) is totally unacceptable. Which is why I believe that if a legit pro gun candidate ran on a platform opposite of everything else that you mentioned, yet stuck to protecting gun rights. Landslide, would not accurately describe the results of voting. The problem of course, few left leaning voters would ever look past the gun issue regardless of what else the candidate stood for. Single issue voting gun owners would. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/128 "2015-12-15T19:11:19Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Which is why I believe that if a legit pro gun candidate ran on a platform opposite of everything else that you mentioned, yet stuck to protecting gun rights. Landslide, would not accurately describe the results of voting. > > The problem of course, few left leaning voters would ever look past the gun issue regardless of what else the candidate stood for. Single issue voting gun owners would. Generally what happens is you get a Democrat who just doesn’t talk much about gun control at all. Carter for example was a hunter. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/129 "2015-12-15T19:33:09Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > According the FBI (in the very same link you provide in #54) [almost 2,000 US murders a year are due to](https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls) “firearms, type not stated.” Because of that, we simply do not know the “used total” of rifle homicides. Well that’s kind of like assuming that 10,000 lost ballots at a polling station were all going to vote for your candidate. Wouldn’t it make more sense that the lost ballots were proportional to the ballots that didn’t get lost from that polling station? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/130 "2015-12-15T19:40:08Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Well, IMHO, a child accidentally shooting themselves with your unsecured weapon in your home sure as hell should be a crime. And/or could be sued in a civil court. It is frequently a crime and you get arraigned in criminals courts. It depends on the state. > [@](#): > > There is attractive nuisance laws. Kid climbs your locked and no trespassing fence to play in your pool or trampoline, and has an accident, you better have a lot of umbrella insurance…And someone in the military can chime in on how your weapon and responsibility is handled. > > For point the second, I am consistently stating that the government should NOT be telling you how to secure your weapon. That said, you are then 100% responsible for it being secure. Someone “steals” your weapon and you don’t report it, it’s still on you until you report it. You report it, then you’re no longer responsible. Pretty straightforward. > > All this harks back to, at least the way I was raised, being responsible for your weapon. That is very different than some of the proposals I am criticizing where reporting the gun stolen doesn’t absolve you. The fact that someone was able to steal it means that you were not storing it properly so you should be liable for anything anyone ever does with that gun after it is stolen. THAT is the sort of bullshit that I am trying to argue against. Assuming reasonably grace periods, I would be OK with requiring people to report when their guns are stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/131 "2015-12-15T20:35:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > One hour of reading. I bet you spent several times that watching something on TV that you’d seen before in the last tw weeks. > Your ignorance on the topic is okay by me as long as you are content to limit yourself to deciding what you want in your home. Once you want to start crafting public policy, I expect you to have a good grounding in at least the basics of what you want to regulate. Your lot’s wearing its ignorance with sanctimonious pride has led to you blowing several opportunities you had in recent years to pass significant legislation. Instead, you strapped on your golf shoes and tramped all over your own peckers, via your nonsensical fixation on “assault weapons.” The thing is that they are not interested in guns. They see a problem and the most obvious cause of the problem seems to be the presence of guns so they don’t give it a lot of thought before they conclude that guns are the problem and the answer is to make them illegal. They are confronted by gun owners who generally like guns and they call them gun nuts and dismiss most of what they say because they are so sure that the REAL answer is to make guns illegal and the gun owners just want to keep their little toys. Its not an attitude that the person on the losing end of the fight should be taking (unless they don’t really mind the losing) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/132 "2015-12-15T20:40:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m not a 100% fan of the NRA either for many reasons, but they are the biggest game in town and there is no sense in fracturing support. The greatest strength is when we all vote together, independent if we agree at the fringes. And Ted Nugent is an asshole. I generally don’t support the NRA unless I have to. They went from being a gun rights organization to a politically partisan organization. What the fuck does taxation and unions have to do with gun rights? But they somehow manage to shoehorn those issues into their annual conferences because its all freedom related or some shit like that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/133 "2015-12-15T20:42:52Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Which is why I believe that if a legit pro gun candidate ran on a platform opposite of everything else that you mentioned, yet stuck to protecting gun rights. Landslide, would not accurately describe the results of voting. > > The problem of course, few left leaning voters would ever look past the gun issue regardless of what else the candidate stood for. Single issue voting gun owners would. The gun issue would disqualify them during the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/134 "2015-12-15T20:46:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Generally what happens is you get a Democrat who just doesn’t talk much about gun control at all. Carter for example was a hunter. Carter ran for president before the Cincinnati revolt of 1977. Things took turn after that. Gun ownership used to be a very bipartisan thing but somehow the issue became very partisan. I suspect that it was a regional difference between rural areas and cities that turned into a partisan difference between Democrats that got elected in cities and Republicans that got elected in rural areas. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/135 "2015-12-15T21:23:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The thing is that they are not interested in guns. They see a problem and the most obvious cause of the problem seems to be the presence of guns so they don’t give it a lot of thought before they conclude that guns are the problem and the answer is to make them illegal. They are confronted by gun owners who generally like guns and they call them gun nuts and dismiss most of what they say because they are so sure that the REAL answer is to make guns illegal and the gun owners just want to keep their little toys. Its not an attitude that the person on the losing end of the fight should be taking (unless they don’t really mind the losing) This is quite true. When a tragedy occurs our reaction is to DO SOMETHING!!! but in most cases there nothing really to be done, and the few things that can be done would be like locking the barn door after the horse got out- or useless things that make them feel like SOMETHING has been done. Most Americans dont really care much about gun control. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/136 "2015-12-16T01:12:05Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > There’s a difference between ‘hyperbolic’ and ‘the opposite of what actually happened’. I asked why ‘common sense’ gun control never seems to involve working with the NRA on proposals they support. You claimed that you “haven’t seen anything that the NRA supports that in any way shape nor form falls into a definition of gun control,” but they were the ones who pushed for the creation of the background check system in use today. That’s a huge, visible, major piece of gun control that gets used routinely and is involved as a major talking point for gun control groups today, it’s not some obscure technical change on a law that rarely even gets looked at. Sure, I’d love to partner with the NRA on universal gun registration as a common sense gun control proposal. Would you and the NRA like to partner on that? ---
**Author:** ![Dobbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Dobbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dobbs)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/137 "2015-12-16T03:37:15Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Sure, I’d love to partner with the NRA on universal gun registration as a common sense gun control proposal. Would you and the NRA like to partner on that? Maybe. What do gun owners get in return? Nationwide recognition of concealed carry permits? Nationwide availability of guns .50 Cal. and smaller? No more silly “assault weapon” bans? If we yield, what will you yield? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/138 "2015-12-16T03:56:40Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Sure, I’d love to partner with the NRA on universal gun registration as a common sense gun control proposal. Would you and the NRA like to partner on that? First off, that doesn’t work as a response to my earlier question. I asked why it’s not ‘common sense’ to partner with the NRA on gun control that they support, universal gun registration has never been something that the NRA supports, so proposing that partnership makes no sense. More importantly, how is gun registration ‘common sense’? Canada ditched their universal gun registration scheme after it turned out to be basically useless and two orders of magnitude more expensive than originally claimed. Spending a lot of money for a system that doesn’t actually do anything useful is the direct opposite of sensible. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/139 "2015-12-16T03:59:48Z")
Me, personally, would prefer to see a nationwide policy/laws for firearms. Yep, you register your piece, you have “liability” with real consequences as long you are registered to that piece, and then adhere to a nationwide law on concealed carry requirements, etc. As I have said up thread and in multiple threads, you take real and definable responsibility for your piece, I am willing to trade off on that. You want concealed carry, well then here be the requirements of x, y and z. Silly assault weapons, well no worries as long as you sign up for the NRA insurance and if needed state/civil penalties (akin to having a “street” Maserati). And I’m certainly not into trying to overly “define” everything to the nth degree except that if hit goes south then you face some real penalties. My point being that “2nd amendmenters” want their cake and to eat it to. You’re responsible for your piece. That means governent doesn’t tell you how to secure it in your home, but if shit happens well then you pay a real price. Fair? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275/140 "2015-12-16T04:00:05Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Sure, I’d love to partner with the NRA on universal gun registration as a common sense gun control proposal. How does “universal gun registration” reduce violent crime? Criminals dont have to register their guns. _Haynes v. United States_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-sense-reasonable-gun-laws/740275.md?page=8)