# Common words that used to have other meanings **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 4, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656 "2023-01-04T14:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/61 "2023-01-05T22:27:08Z")
“Rape” used to mean “abduct”, as in “The Rape of the Sabine Women”. Nowadays it only means the other thing. If you see a performance of _The Fantastiks_, and they use the original language, a father is paying a guy to rape his daughter. Yeah, we all thought _The Fantastiks_ was a light-hearted comedy/musical. Adding “rape” ruins it (for me, at least.) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/62 "2023-01-05T22:50:57Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > "Rape” used to mean “abduct”, as in “The Rape of the Sabine Women”. It retains that sense in the related word “rapine”. However, it looks like “rape” has meant or at least connoted “sexual violence” since at least the 15th c: [rape | Etymology of rape by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/rape) ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/63 "2023-01-05T23:27:00Z")
When I worked in the composing room of the Wall Street Journal (circa 1980), I started out as a ‘sub’ (substitute, when someone called in sick) and then eventually got a “sit” (situation). ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/64 "2023-01-05T23:53:41Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > when we say **veteran** , we use it pretty much only to mean someone who has been in the military, I think you are correct here. And sometimes saying “He’s a vet” can be misconstrued to indicate military when it’s actually a veterinarian. Context is everything. I have heard “He’s a veteran of this industry.” which is correct usage but I think that usage is truly dying out on the left side of the pond. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/65 "2023-01-06T01:07:41Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > “Fair” to describe a person’s looks – e.g., “fair of face” – used to mean beautiful. It still does, doesn’t it? I wouldn’t understand that phrase in any other way. “Fair” has a secondary meaning; light as opposed to dark in colour, as in e.g. “fair hair”. But this isn’t a changed meaning or a novel meaning. Both meanings have been attached to the word since it entered the English language, as they were attached to the Old German, Old Swedish, Old Danish etc antecedent words from which the English word is derived. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/66 "2023-01-06T01:18:37Z")
In my (American English) experience, “fair” meaning “beautiful” is a rare or poetic usage. “Fair of face” is not something you’d hear in conversation. In everyday speech, “fair” more commonly means “mediocre, not too good, but not too bad”. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/67 "2023-01-06T01:21:33Z")
That’s fair. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/68 "2023-01-06T01:36:15Z")
“Ok” still has its original meaning of “everything’s fine, there’s nothing wrong” – you might say “I’m ok” after falling off a bike, for example. But it has taken on a second meaning of “mediocre, acceptable but not exceptional.” Chevy dealerships used to call their used car division “OK Used Cars”. Obviously they meant it in the former sense, but if they used that name now people would probably read it as the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/69 "2023-01-06T01:46:56Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > I have heard “He’s a veteran of this industry.” which is correct usage but I think that usage is truly dying out on the left side of the pond. No, I don’t think that’s the case; I still hear “veteran firefighter” or “three year veteran of the NFL”, or such. I’ve never heard “veteran” as a generic term for an older person - what the British would term a “pensioner”; “veteran” implies “person with experience of a particular situation or job”. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/70 "2023-01-06T02:14:51Z")
In the US, you have to know what kind of restaurant you are in. If you are at a place considered “fast food,” where you order at the counter, everything is a la carte unless otherwise specified. You order a Whopper, you get a Whopper. The cashier will probably ask you if you _want_ a meal, prompting you to remember that you have to specify-- if you want fries and a drink, you want a “Whopper meal,” and it’s cheaper than getting each one separately. Even if you really just want a small drink and large fries. The “Large meal” is cheaper that a Whopper, large fries, and a small drink, each a la carte. In a sit-down restaurant, fries are usually included with a burger, and refusing them doesn’t make the meal cheaper, although sometimes you can substitute something else, like a salad-- although, read the menu, fries _&_ a salad may be included, especially as dinner. A non-alcoholic drink may be as well. If you want to claim special dietary needs, you can probably get them to sub in something like steamed broccoli for the fries. Just saying. Anyone who has been to the US for more than about 3 days already knows this, but there might be someone out there who finds it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/71 "2023-01-06T02:29:16Z")
If you say someone is a veteran without modification in the US, people will assume it is the armed services. But even if it isn’t, I still think that over here, we currently use the term for professions where you are part of some kind of “force.” Firefighters, cops, EMTs, but even journalists and teachers. Or actors-- they have a union. However, not novelists, personal trainers, or Pentacostal ministers. Also, not things where you never really retire, or where some other term is more approporiate. No veteran Supreme Court justices, because they are justices emeriti. Same with rabbis. A retired rabbi is rabbi emeritus/emerita of the last place they served-- ditto college professors. And US presidents are “former presidents,” not “veteran presidents.” Nuns are never veterans because they never have an official retired status. They may not have any duties, if they are too old or ill to perform any, but they remain part of the community. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/72 "2023-01-06T02:32:34Z")
Oh, hell. Nothing is even “used” in the US anymore. It’s “pre-owned,” which makes no sense, because that ought to refer to the time before it was owned by anyone. I once did hear of used items referred to as “wear-tested,” which I thought was kind of cute. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/73 "2023-01-06T02:50:40Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > In my (American English) experience, “fair” meaning “beautiful” is a rare or poetic usage. Except in phrases like “fair weather”, which doesn’t signify mediocre weather (or for that matter weather associated with justice or evenhandedness), it means beautiful weather. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/74 "2023-01-06T06:29:14Z")
And the origin of “dude” has been researched and debated at great length by linguists, with no definitive conclusions. If you like this topic, and listen to podcasts, you’ll want to check out both Lexicon Valley and The History of English. The latter is especially impressive, as it is encyclopedic in content, and created as a labor of love by a non-linguist. Not that John McWhorter isn’t an impressive guy, but he IS a linguist, so the podcast is closer to his real job. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/75 "2023-01-06T07:16:24Z")
The OED says “dude” is “probably” a shortened form of “doodle”, the same word in Yankee Doodle Dandy. “Bully” has an interesting history. Originally it was a term of endearment, first applied to either sex, later usually between men, like “buddy” or “pal”. Later still it meant “pimp”, then “thug or ruffian”, and finally “one who seeks to intimidate the vulnerable”. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/76 "2023-01-06T09:18:02Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > if you ask for “fish” in a Scottish fish and chip shop, you’ll be given fish and chips. > [@Treppenwitz](#): > > At the bottom end of the scale, if me and the missus want fish and chips, but don’t want that many chips, we might ask for something like “one fish and one fish and chips”. That’s one portion of chips in England and three in Scotland. Speaking as a Scot who has ordered more than his share of both fish and chips from Scottish chippies, this is not generally true. Up until today, I have never seen or heard of this interpretation of “fish”. If I ask for “fish” they might _assume_ I want chips with it because this is Scotland, but they’re just as likely to ask what I mean. The term of art is “fish supper” which means one fried fish plus a portion of chips. (See also, haggis supper, sausage supper etc…) Chippies tend to be generous with chips (see, “this is Scotland” above) so I often do ask for “one fish and a fish supper” which every one understand to mean I want 2 bits of fish and one portion of chips by doing so. > [@Treppenwitz](#): > > ETA: along the same lines I _believe_ that in a Scottish pub “A half, please” means a half pint of beer plus a whisky - but that was just a story a friend told me many years ago. If you want the whisky with your half pint the term is “A half and a hauf” - a half pint of beer and dram of whisky. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/77 "2023-01-06T14:54:52Z")
I stand corrected - more detail later. But first, these stories related to what appeared to be a peculiarly Scottish use of the word “Veteran”. I couldn’t actually think of an active Scottish poster - sorry @Stanislaus, I didn’t realize you were Scottish - so I did my best, musing that there were probably words which had a subtly different usage in Scottish English as compared to English English. These two (bad) examples were the best that I could come up with. (The internet doesn’t help here - everything devolves to _Thirty Three words that mean amazingly different things in Scotland!_ and the like. So - as a Scot I would back you to do better on this than me - the discussion picks up at post 45. Is “veteran” nuanced differently in Scotland? (And are there other examples of words that are subtly different north of the border, that we should know about?) Back to my bad. My believing that Fish = Fish and Chips in Scotland dates from a misunderstanding in a chippie in (I think) Stranraer, many years ago, and the explanation given by the guy behind the counter. If it never was the case, maybe he was just funning with a couple of ignorant English persons - who knows? The whisky thing is more interesting - here’s the story. Again, many years ago, an (English) friend was vacationing in Scotland. He was pretty musically gifted, found himself in a pub with a piano, sat down and started playing - which pleased the patrons enough that they bought him drinks all night. As being totally hammered would have impaired his playing, when he was asked he said “Just a half, thanks very much”. As the evening went on and he drank his halves and played, he became increasingly puzzled at the growing row of glasses of whisky on top of the piano. The explanation I gave was the one he was given. Any thoughts? j ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/78 "2023-01-06T15:07:24Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > So - as a Scot I would back you to do better on this than me - the discussion picks up at post 45. Is “veteran” nuanced differently in Scotland? I wouldn’t use and haven’t heard others use, “veteran” as a straight synonym for “old person”. “A person with a lot of experience in X” where X is not military, yes. I can see it being used in a jokey way for a group of old people as in “it’s a right bunch of veterans turn out for the council meeting”. The email @themapleleaf quoted does surprise me because “doing something for a long time” fits my understanding but just “they are old” does not. If XXX is some sort of society then I can see you would have a sub-group of Veteran footballers/darts players/choristers for which being over 60 was the qualification? > [@Treppenwitz](#): > > The whisky thing is more interesting - here’s the story Oh, the benefits of a musical education! If I had to guess, I’d say that either this shows my experience isn’t universal and in at least this pub the order of a half and a hauf was the default - e.g. if you ordered a half of beer you expected and were presumed to want the dram alongside it. Or maybe the patrons were showing their gratitude by going over and above your friends request. Or maybe something got lost in translation on the way to the bar. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/79 "2023-01-06T15:59:52Z")
One thing with the word “veteran” is that, at least in the US, a military veteran is generally assumed to have left the service (though active duty probably would still qualify for a “veterans’ discount” or the like), but when “veteran” is used as an adjective with any other vocation, they’re generally assumed to still be doing whatever it is. If I’m puzzled by how to deal with a situation with a student, I might ask a veteran teacher for advice… but the veteran teacher is probably going to be in the next classroom over from me, and on break from teaching her own class. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/80 "2023-01-06T16:04:02Z")
There was a bit of confusion a few years ago when our Administration sent out an email in early November asking for veteran teachers to identify themselves so they could be honored during out Veterans Day observance. The English department took them to task publicly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656.md?page=5)