# Common words that used to have other meanings **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 4, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656 "2023-01-04T14:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/101 "2023-01-07T23:06:00Z")
“begging the question.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/102 "2023-01-07T23:09:06Z")
I thought that, as well, but checking the etymological dictionaries, that usage of “gay” is 2000s. > **[gay | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=gay)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... > As a teen slang word meaning “bad, inferior, undesirable,” without reference to sexuality, from 2000. Now, I would have sworn we used it, too, in that manner in the 80s and early 90s, but after thinking about it, I’m not sure. I feel like when we used that usage, it was, in fact, used to mean “effeminate, homosexual” not merely “bad, inferior, undesirable.” So I’m confused myself. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/103 "2023-01-07T23:12:00Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > “begging the question.” = Quite interesting in the conversation about fossilized words. In the original meaning of the _petitio principii_ logical fallacy, the archaic sense of _begging_ was fossilized. But since there was another natural and useful meaning to the phrase with the non-archaic sense of begging, that new meaning took over. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/104 "2023-01-07T23:14:27Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Oh, hell. Nothing is even “used” in the US anymore. It’s “pre-owned,” There’s a lot of used car lots by my house here in Chicago. It’s not uncommon to see them advertise as “USED.” It varies by dealership. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/105 "2023-01-07T23:18:37Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The expression “bully for you” is also current, at least in the U.K. = good for you, well done - but almost invariably used sarcastically. I don’t think I’ve heard it used in the States in at least 40 years. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/106 "2023-01-07T23:28:53Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > It’s “pre-owned,” which makes no sense, because that ought to refer to the time before it was owned by anyone. Not sure if this was tongue-in-cheek. The euphemism is kind of silly, I agree, but not for that reason - there are many words in which the pre- prefix labels a verb that verbed before now. I’d say they are much more common than words where the pre- indicates relative time. prepare, preexist, preheat, prejudge etc. etc., thousands of them vs prehistory, preschool, prepubescent… harder to come up with so many of these ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/107 "2023-01-07T23:39:53Z")
The Duke of Wellington called the Battle of Waterloo " a damned nice thing\* — the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life". He meant it was finely balanced and could have gone either way. This is consistent with ‘precise and careful’ (more-or-less). ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/108 "2023-01-07T23:40:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Now, I would have sworn we used it, too, in that manner in the 80s and early 90s, but after thinking about it, I’m not sure. I feel like when we used that usage, it was, in fact, used to mean “effeminate, homosexual” not merely “bad, inferior, undesirable.” So I’m confused myself. Obviously I’m no authority, and even if I were this is merely anecdotal, but I specifically remember a conversation that took place in the summer of 1994 – I remember the exact street block we were on – in which I argued with a work friend that that usage was offensive to gay people, and he, a decent non-gay-hating person, couldn’t for the life of him understand why. Times were **very** different then. I seem to recall the term being used that way as early as the 70s, when I was in junior high, but the one 1994 conversation is the earliest I can put a (personally) certain date on it. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/109 "2023-01-07T23:42:51Z")
Which not only makes no sense, but robs us of the original meaning. What else can you say? “Predicates itself on its own conclusion”? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/110 "2023-01-07T23:44:07Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > I seem to recall the term being used that way as early as the 70s, when I was in junior high, but the one 1994 conversation is the earliest I can put a (personally) certain date on it. That does sound closer to my experience, but I don’t have a definite conversation to pin it on. And that would pre-date South Park and the curious (to me) c.2000 etymology from etymonline. But I just don’t trust my memory. I feel like we did use it that way when I was in high school (1989-1993), but not really before then. Or maybe the word was transitioning at that time from meaning “effiminate, homosexual” to just a general “uncool, inferior” sort of meaning. My conjecture is that if South Park was using it, it was already in the public lexicon for awhile. I don’t feel like it created this usage but, once again, I haven’t studied this word and my memories have jumbled up before. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/111 "2023-01-07T23:50:27Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > robs us of the original meaning. What else can you say Resisting change on the grounds that “there is no other way to say this” rarely holds up in English. “Assumes the conclusion” is the most obvious way to say it, and surely far clearer than relying on an archaic meaning of begging. Or you can call it a circular argument, or if you want an expression for the formal logical fallacy you can say _petitio principii_. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > makes no sense I’m not sure what you mean. The natural and useful meaning for “begging the question” is its modern meaning - when you say something that implicitly demands (begs) that an issue/question be addressed. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/112 "2023-01-08T00:00:57Z")
I don’t think “beg” is transitive. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/113 "2023-01-08T00:07:30Z")
Perhaps, but mentally inserting a preposition - begging [for] the question [to be asked] - is much less of a leap than researching an archaic meaning for the verb. And the meaning is closely related to the idiom “go begging”. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/114 "2023-01-08T00:10:47Z")
[Cecil Adams re: “beg the question”](https://chicagoreader.com/news-politics/the-straight-dope-253/): > On the subject of begging the question, it occurred to me to say “invite” or “demand” lest I hear from persons such as yourself. But “beg” had the element of puppy-dog enthusiasm I was after. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/115 "2023-01-08T00:27:59Z")
Moron, idiot, and imbecile - common insults - all started out as clinical terms. > [@](#): > > Idiots. —Those so defective that the mental development never exceeds that or a normal child of about two years. > Imbeciles. —Those whose development is higher than that of an idiot, but whose intelligence does not exceed that of a normal child of about seven years. > Morons. —Those whose mental development is above that of an imbecile, but does not exceed that of a normal child of about twelve years. > — Edmund Burke Huey, _Backward and Feeble-Minded Children_ , 1912 > **[The Clinical History of 'Moron,' 'Idiot,' and 'Imbecile'](https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/moron-idiot-imbecile-offensive-history)** > > The words have a less-than-savory past ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/116 "2023-01-08T00:32:32Z")
I think Cecil’s reply begs to be quoted more fully… > On the subject of begging the question, it occurred to me to say “invite” or “demand” lest I hear from persons such as yourself. But “beg” had the element of puppy-dog enthusiasm I was after. I was using these words in a manner congruent with their plain meaning, and while they also happen to be the term for a certain logical fallacy, I figured that no one would misunderstand my intent. And no one has. I recognize, however, that people need an outlet for their hostility, and better this than mailbox bombs. So, has your stress been reduced? Good. Now piss off. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/117 "2023-01-08T02:42:13Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Moron, idiot, and imbecile - common insults - all started out as clinical terms. I don’t know about moron or imbecile, but “idiot” certainly did not _start out_ as a clinical term. It occurs in Shakespeare, after all–“a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” More likely clinicians took pre-existing terms meaning people of low intelligence, and applied clinical meanings to them. All the more reason to be glad that we don’t use them that way anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/118 "2023-01-08T03:06:06Z")
Incredibly this was still in my mother’s Human & Social Biology textbook that she handed down to me (I’m guessing it was printed in the 1940s in the UK) Handed down to me c1980. By which point even I knew it was outdated. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/119 "2023-01-08T03:08:24Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > “Rape” used to mean “abduct”, as in “The Rape of the Sabine Women”. Or the [Rape of Persephone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Persephone). ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656/120 "2023-01-08T03:24:53Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I don’t know about moron or imbecile, but “idiot” certainly did not _start out_ as a clinical term. It occurs in Shakespeare, after all–“a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” Yeah, I was sloppy with my words. From my own cite > [@](#): > > Of these three words _moron_ is the newest (it dates to the early 20th century), and the only one coined specifically for the purpose of medical diagnosis. The word comes from the Greek _mōros_ , meaning “foolish, stupid,” and shares this etymology with words such as [_sophomore_](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sophomore) (“a student in the second year at college or a 4-year secondary school”) and [_morosoph_](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/morosoph) (“a learned fool”). As you mentioned, idiot has a longer history > [@](#): > > _Idiot_ , from the Greek _idios_ (“private” or “one’s own”), is the oldest of these words, and has been in continual use since the 14th century. Over the years _idiot_ has taken on a number of meanings, ranging from “an ignorant or unschooled person” to “jester, professional fool” to “Stimpy” (of [“Ren and” fame](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101178/?ref_=ttfc_ql)). And since at least the 17th century the word has been used in theater in a colloquial insulting sense similar to how it is often heard today. As for imbecile > [@](#): > > _Imbecile_ began its life in English in the 16th century as an adjective, and meant “weak, feeble” (the word comes from the Latin _imbecillus_ , “weak, weak-minded”). It wasn’t until the early 19th century that the word began to be used as a noun. ETA: Speaking of Shakespeare, I recall that “to die” was slang in his time for having an orgasm. This leads to some double entendres in Romeo and Juliet, I believe. > **[Act 3, Scene 2: Popup Note Index Item: "die"](https://myshakespeare.com/romeo-and-juliet/act-3-scene-2-popup-note-index-item-die)** > > An explanation of sexual innuendo in Juliet’s speech in Act 3, Scene 2 of myShakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/common-words-that-used-to-have-other-meanings/977656.md?page=7)