“begging the question.”
I thought that, as well, but checking the etymological dictionaries, that usage of “gay” is 2000s.
As a teen slang word meaning “bad, inferior, undesirable,” without reference to sexuality, from 2000.
Now, I would have sworn we used it, too, in that manner in the 80s and early 90s, but after thinking about it, I’m not sure. I feel like when we used that usage, it was, in fact, used to mean “effeminate, homosexual” not merely “bad, inferior, undesirable.” So I’m confused myself.
Quite interesting in the conversation about fossilized words. In the original meaning of the petitio principii logical fallacy, the archaic sense of begging was fossilized. But since there was another natural and useful meaning to the phrase with the non-archaic sense of begging, that new meaning took over.
There’s a lot of used car lots by my house here in Chicago. It’s not uncommon to see them advertise as “USED.” It varies by dealership.
I don’t think I’ve heard it used in the States in at least 40 years.
Not sure if this was tongue-in-cheek. The euphemism is kind of silly, I agree, but not for that reason - there are many words in which the pre- prefix labels a verb that verbed before now. I’d say they are much more common than words where the pre- indicates relative time.
prepare, preexist, preheat, prejudge etc. etc., thousands of them
vs
prehistory, preschool, prepubescent… harder to come up with so many of these
The Duke of Wellington called the Battle of Waterloo " a damned nice thing* — the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life".
He meant it was finely balanced and could have gone either way. This is consistent with ‘precise and careful’ (more-or-less).
Obviously I’m no authority, and even if I were this is merely anecdotal, but I specifically remember a conversation that took place in the summer of 1994 – I remember the exact street block we were on – in which I argued with a work friend that that usage was offensive to gay people, and he, a decent non-gay-hating person, couldn’t for the life of him understand why. Times were very different then.
I seem to recall the term being used that way as early as the 70s, when I was in junior high, but the one 1994 conversation is the earliest I can put a (personally) certain date on it.
Which not only makes no sense, but robs us of the original meaning. What else can you say? “Predicates itself on its own conclusion”?
That does sound closer to my experience, but I don’t have a definite conversation to pin it on. And that would pre-date South Park and the curious (to me) c.2000 etymology from etymonline. But I just don’t trust my memory. I feel like we did use it that way when I was in high school (1989-1993), but not really before then. Or maybe the word was transitioning at that time from meaning “effiminate, homosexual” to just a general “uncool, inferior” sort of meaning. My conjecture is that if South Park was using it, it was already in the public lexicon for awhile. I don’t feel like it created this usage but, once again, I haven’t studied this word and my memories have jumbled up before.
Resisting change on the grounds that “there is no other way to say this” rarely holds up in English. “Assumes the conclusion” is the most obvious way to say it, and surely far clearer than relying on an archaic meaning of begging. Or you can call it a circular argument, or if you want an expression for the formal logical fallacy you can say petitio principii.
I’m not sure what you mean. The natural and useful meaning for “begging the question” is its modern meaning - when you say something that implicitly demands (begs) that an issue/question be addressed.
I don’t think “beg” is transitive.
Perhaps, but mentally inserting a preposition - begging [for] the question [to be asked] - is much less of a leap than researching an archaic meaning for the verb. And the meaning is closely related to the idiom “go begging”.
Cecil Adams re: “beg the question”:
On the subject of begging the question, it occurred to me to say “invite” or “demand” lest I hear from persons such as yourself. But “beg” had the element of puppy-dog enthusiasm I was after.
Moron, idiot, and imbecile - common insults - all started out as clinical terms.
I think Cecil’s reply begs to be quoted more fully…
On the subject of begging the question, it occurred to me to say “invite” or “demand” lest I hear from persons such as yourself. But “beg” had the element of puppy-dog enthusiasm I was after. I was using these words in a manner congruent with their plain meaning, and while they also happen to be the term for a certain logical fallacy, I figured that no one would misunderstand my intent. And no one has. I recognize, however, that people need an outlet for their hostility, and better this than mailbox bombs. So, has your stress been reduced? Good. Now piss off.
I don’t know about moron or imbecile, but “idiot” certainly did not start out as a clinical term. It occurs in Shakespeare, after all–“a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
More likely clinicians took pre-existing terms meaning people of low intelligence, and applied clinical meanings to them. All the more reason to be glad that we don’t use them that way anymore.
Incredibly this was still in my mother’s Human & Social Biology textbook that she handed down to me (I’m guessing it was printed in the 1940s in the UK) Handed down to me c1980. By which point even I knew it was outdated.
Or the Rape of Persephone.
Yeah, I was sloppy with my words. From my own cite
As you mentioned, idiot has a longer history
As for imbecile
ETA: Speaking of Shakespeare, I recall that “to die” was slang in his time for having an orgasm. This leads to some double entendres in Romeo and Juliet, I believe.