# Commonly(and frustratingly) misunderstood plot points(spoilers, I guess) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920 "2012-02-06T01:56:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/201 "2012-02-08T21:35:02Z")
Regarding Total Recall: > [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > After the end of the movie he woke up getting what he paid for…and went home to his wife. 🙂 Wasn’t there something in the movie about some people needing a labotomy if the procedure fried their brain? I actually thought, like you, that Arnold dreamed the whole thing, but unlike you, I thought it messed up his brain and he would essentially stay on Mars forever (in his mind, of course) while his actual body was a vegetable. I haven’t seen the movie in years and years, so I might be way off base. But nothing made me think he was going back to Sharon Stone and everything would be hunky dory. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/202 "2012-02-08T21:38:57Z")
Huh. Up to now I’d figured _Total Recall_ for the quintessential braindead action flick, riddled with plot holes and whatnot. If it’s all a dream, though… well, that doesn’t allow it to rise to the level of a _good_ movie, but it becomes a tad more tolerable. I’d suggest the few scenes that indicate it is _not_ a dream are those where Quaid is not present: - the mutants have nearly suffocated, then start to revive as Mars’ new atmosphere reaches them - Cohagen gets blown out the airlock and we see a close-up of his vacuum-exploding face, even though he’s some distance away from Quaid. But I guess even dreams can occasionally and briefly shift from first-person to third-person perspective. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/203 "2012-02-08T21:49:46Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > The amount of chutzpah that Kirk puts into that yell has always struck me as odd, considering how he is not at all marooned in the asteroid, and he knows it. > > As someone suggested upthread, I think they wrote that reaction in because it makes for good drama in the moment, just like the writers decide that Kirk doesn’t tell anyone that in fact they will be rescued in a few hours until after it happens; it makes the reveal to the audience that much better. I figured that Kirk was spun up on adreline. He just watched Cpt. Terrel vaporize a lab technician, and then vaporize himself. Kirk is getting tired of people getting killed, even if indirectly, by Khan. Remember, he thought he was outwitting Khan at this point, and he did not realise that Khan still controlled Chekov and Terrel via the eels. But Kirk made a mistake (by assuming that Chekov & Terrel were free of the control), and people died for it. So, my answer is his frustration is real. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/204 "2012-02-08T21:54:20Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You realize the guy is played by William Shatner, right? +1 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/205 "2012-02-08T21:57:04Z")
Lord of the Rings, Part Deux: The joke about the bearded dwarven women was just Aragorn and Gimli pulling Eowyn’s leg. But for some reason, folks think they were serious. Bah! Bearded women. If such was the case, why would Gimli be so smitten with Galadriel? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/206 "2012-02-08T22:00:37Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > If such was the case, why would Gimli be so smitten with Galadriel? …because she DOESN’T have a beard? She’s exotic. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/207 "2012-02-08T22:04:43Z")
Ya’ll are missing the point with Total Recall, it is intentionally ambiguous by directorial intent. There is no right answer. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/208 "2012-02-08T22:11:09Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Ya’ll are missing the point with Total Recall, it is intentionally ambiguous by directorial intent. There is no right answer. Yes there is. My interpretation is the correct answer. It was not a dream. If it was a dream then all of the ladies would have three titties instead of just the one. No other evidence is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/209 "2012-02-08T22:18:08Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …because she DOESN’T have a beard? She’s exotic. Do you find bearded ladies exciting? Have you ever been smitten by the sight of a bearded lady? NO! 🙂 But that’s what Gimli is supposed to be used to. A beardless lady (assuming he was used to the furry kind) would have seemed grotesque. But since he’s smitten with the baby smooth face, we can assume that that is what he is used to. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/210 "2012-02-08T22:28:01Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I decided a long time ago that as much as I love Dick(wait…:smack:) comparions are pointless, Blade Runner diverges so much from its source material its best to consider it a new work. > > I actually think its superior and not so much about AI rights as dehumanization. Speaking as someone who doesn’t care much for PKD’s writing, I agree with you. Scott’s film is much more thought-provoking, and disturbing, than the original story. Far superior. . ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/211 "2012-02-08T22:30:11Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Yes there is. My interpretation is the correct answer. > > It was not a dream. If it was a dream then all of the ladies would have three titties instead of just the one. No other evidence is necessary. Huh…I can’t think of a flaw in that logic! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/212 "2012-02-08T22:40:52Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Do you find bearded ladies exciting? Have you ever been smitten by the sight of a bearded lady? NO! > > 🙂 > > But that’s what Gimli is supposed to be used to. A beardless lady (assuming he was used to the furry kind) would have seemed grotesque. But since he’s smitten with the baby smooth face, we can assume that that is what he is used to. The problem is, you’re posting this on the same page as – repeated praise for that triple-breasted woman in TOTAL RECALL. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/213 "2012-02-08T22:51:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The problem is, you’re posting this on the same page as – repeated praise for that triple-breasted woman in TOTAL RECALL. Well, they had one in that film, didn’t they? She didn’t seem all that hot to me. Of course, I’m not a drunken smurf. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/214 "2012-02-08T22:52:57Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Ya’ll are missing the point with Total Recall, it is intentionally ambiguous by directorial intent. There is no right answer. There is no possible explanation for one of about seven computer simulated females that fit his criteria being the exact same woman that used to be his real-life secret agent resistance girlfriend. If they were shooting for amgibuity, they should have used a similar-looking woman for 21A, not a photo of Rachel Ticotin. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/215 "2012-02-08T22:56:45Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Lord of the Rings, Part Deux: > > The joke about the bearded dwarven women was just Aragorn and Gimli pulling Eowyn’s leg. But for some reason, folks think they were serious. The problem with that logic is that the Tolkien canon explicitly states that they have beards. _The War of the Jewels_ contains the following: > [@Tolkien](#): > > no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf - unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame… For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike… ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/216 "2012-02-08T23:07:51Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > That… could mess with someone’s head. An excellent synopsis of one of PKD’s favorite themes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/217 "2012-02-08T23:14:17Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Well, they had one in that film, didn’t they? She didn’t seem all that hot to me. But she seems hot to _ **some** _ guys who only hang out with two-breasted women. And so, too, could a female with no beard seem hot to at least some guys who, for the sake of argument, only hang out with bearded females. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/218 "2012-02-08T23:16:34Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > There is no possible explanation for one of about seven computer simulated females that fit his criteria being the exact same woman that used to be his real-life secret agent resistance girlfriend. If they were shooting for amgibuity, they should have used a similar-looking woman for 21A, not a photo of Rachel Ticotin. You missed some dialogue, his resistance girlfriend is a MODEL who moonlights as a rebel. And rumors had been swirling in the media about alien artifacts found on Mars, this captured the popular imagination and its no shock Recall would introduce a scenario involving it. The film is deeper than most realize. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/219 "2012-02-08T23:32:49Z")
> [@grude](#): > > You missed some dialogue, his resistance girlfriend is a MODEL who moonlights as a rebel. So her modeling work headshot was purchased by Recall, therefore it’s just a one-in-seven chance that the simulation chose that image, and their real history together is yet another coincidence. > [@](#): > > And rumors had been swirling in the media about alien artifacts found on Mars, this captured the popular imagination and its no shock Recall would introduce a scenario involving it. The scenario being the computer scrolled through several different alien photos that had nothing to do with what was really found, and landed on one that happened to look exactly like an oxygen making machine that would make the skies blue, which happened to be exactly what was really found. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/220 "2012-02-08T23:36:30Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > So her modeling work headshot was purchased by Recall, therefore it’s just a one-in-seven chance that the simulation chose that image, and their real history together is yet another coincidence. > > The scenario being the computer scrolled through several different alien photos that had nothing to do with what was really found, and landed on one that happened to look exactly like an oxygen making machine that would make the skies blue, which happened to be exactly what was really found. I can’t believe I am going to say this but…it is a movie.🙂 Yes it would be an outrageous coincidence in real life, but its good enough to cast doubt on any interpretation(which was the director’s intention). EDIT:Remember someone who had actually seen the find on Mars was blabbing, so depending on how specific they were sure a artist rendition could capture the feel of the site. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920.md?page=12)