# Commonly(and frustratingly) misunderstood plot points(spoilers, I guess) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920 "2012-02-06T01:56:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/161 "2012-02-08T02:18:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [QUOTE=The Other Waldo Pepper] > Why does God need to bless all the waters simultaneously? Can’t the former preacher make the water at his farmhouse holy at a moment’s notice? Because the aliens aren’t just at his farmhouse. They’re all over the world. [/QUOTE] So are preachers! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/162 "2012-02-08T02:28:59Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > According to the novel, she’s Idgie’s sister-in-law. Was she ever shown in the movie’s flashbacks? Also, in the movie(movie only, not the book), was it supposed to be open to interpretation or does the movie clearly state that it isn’t Idgie? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/163 "2012-02-08T02:31:56Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > Fried Green Tomatoes: > > Mrs. Threadgoode is not Idgie. I haven’t read the book (although it’s in a pile to be read…) but they make this intentionally confusing in the movie. They certainly imply she could be, and it seems Kathy bates character thinks she is, but when you think about it more, it doesn’t fit. I never really understood why the movie makers did it like that. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/164 "2012-02-08T03:08:23Z")
**mahaloth** : No, Ninny was never in the flashbacks, and neither was Cleo, her husband (another brother of Idgie’s). I agree with **miss elizabeth** that the movie’s presentation was aggravating. In the novel, Ninny goes into some detail about how she and Cleo met. It’s a charming little side story, but it’s one of many charming little side stories that had to be left out. I guess they wanted to be coy, but I’d rather they’d added one line, like “This was just after my wedding to Cleo–” “Oh, Idgie’s brother!” Thinking that Ninny = Idgie does not enhance the story. In fact, it would kind of undercut it. I mean, if anyone really believes Ninny = Idgie, I don’t see how they could. Getting old slows people down, but it doesn’t **change** them into a prim conservative after decades of being a free spirit. Idgie just wouldn’t be in a retirement home, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/165 "2012-02-08T03:15:46Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I actually think I read a review from a “real” reviewer who commented that Indiana Jones 4 was a pointless thing to watch because Indiana Jones is now immortal after drinking from the cup in part 3. Anyone else ever run into anyone who thought that? Who sez he isn’t?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/166 "2012-02-08T03:18:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Who sez he isn’t?😕 His Dad drank as well and he’s dead in the last movie. That, and the movie says so. I’m not being snarky, but have you read the whole thread? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/167 "2012-02-08T03:20:22Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > His Dad drank as well and he’s dead in the last movie. That, and the movie says so. I’m not being snarky, but have you read the whole thread? Indiana Jones is immortal, like Beowulf or many other mythic heroes. Whether or not his mortal shell continues is besides the point. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/168 "2012-02-08T03:27:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Indiana Jones is immortal, like Beowulf or many other mythic heroes. Whether or not his mortal shell continues is besides the point. Oh. I think I’m being whooshed, then? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/169 "2012-02-08T04:02:55Z")
I think I got it now. Spock did not become immortal at the end of _Wrath of Khan_ because he’s not an alien - he’s a robot. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/170 "2012-02-08T04:08:40Z")
No, drinking from the grail makes you immortal in the literal sense of never dying. The 700 year old knight in the film proves that. And the fact that it healed Henry Senior’s gunshot wound. However, there is a line of dialogue that some people missed which states that the immortality lasts only as long as you remain within the cave. A lot of people failed to note that part, thus they thought that Indy was immortal at the end of the film. DrDeth’s remark about being immortal like Beowulf is a strawman that has nothing to do with the film. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/171 "2012-02-08T04:15:59Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Except movie aliens don’t generally come with Bluetooth. 😃 > > Also, the first time we’re shown that classic silhouette in the movie is in David’s dramatic reveal, and the appearance of the future AI calls back to that directly. I was going to say exactly this. To me the foreshadowing was obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/172 "2012-02-08T04:21:43Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I think I got it now. Spock did not become immortal at the end of _Wrath of Khan_ because he’s not an alien - he’s a robot. A _girl_ robot! ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/173 "2012-02-08T05:32:44Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I haven’t read the book (although it’s in a pile to be read…) but they make this intentionally confusing in the movie. They certainly imply she could be, and it seems Kathy bates character thinks she is, but when you think about it more, it doesn’t fit. I never really understood why the movie makers did it like that. My limited understanding is that the film removes much of the lesbian subtext in the book, making it more palatable to mainstream audiences. (If this isn’t what you’re refering to, ignore everything I just wrote) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/174 "2012-02-08T05:39:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > A _girl_ robot! Who drinks holy water! ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/175 "2012-02-08T09:14:46Z")
An additional note on AI: I believe the design of the robots in the ending is to show that the evolution of the robots have now gone so long that robots are now not only mechinal copies of humans, but actually more complex than humans in all ways. If the robots had been designed in a more traditionally robotic way, this point would not have been as clear. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/176 "2012-02-08T09:19:22Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > .I mean, if anyone really believes Ninny = Idgie, I don’t see how they could. Getting old slows people down, but it doesn’t **change** them into a prim conservative after decades of being a free spirit. Idgie just wouldn’t be in a retirement home, for that matter. Ninny seemed pretty free spirited for an old woman to me. And she wasn’t living in the retirement home. She was visiting her friend. When her friend died she tried to go home, to discover it had been demolished. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/177 "2012-02-08T09:52:14Z")
> [@Lord\_Il\_Palazzo](#): > > I doubt a _former_ preacher could bless holy water, even if he was from one of the few denominations that uses or believes in it in the first place. Gibson’s character is Episcopalian, and Episcopalians use holy water. Since he goes back to preaching at the end of the movie, we can conclude that he didn’t fully leave the church - he was likely on some sort of “administrative leave” during the period of the movie. I’m not familiar with the precise means by which water is made holy, but I always assumed that it was Gibson’s willingness to act in the name of God in the climactic scene that caused the water to have its effect. We’re told earlier on that all the creatures are so effected, but only as a rumor told to Gibson by someone who hasn’t seen it happen. It may be that part of God’s plan was for Gibson to hear that rumor, even if it wasn’t generally true that ordinary water is toxic to the creatures. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/178 "2012-02-08T10:55:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Were there people seriously arguing that this encounter was a coincidence? Seeing Marcellus holding the take-out food made it, I thought, apparent that he was just then heading to (or back to) Butch’s apartment with food for himself and Vincent. > > I just rewatched part of the movie - after shooting Vincent and leaving his building, Butch heads back to the car and, overconfidently, actually drives around to the front entrance, pauses to comment smugly about how he is being underestimated, then a block later pauses at a red light only to have Marcellus (who is holding a pink box with what looks like two cups of coffee balanced on top) cross the street in front of him. > > Hilarity ensues. Incidentally, the lyrics on Butch’s car radio are “It’s good to see you, I must go, I know I look a fright” at the moment Butch notices Marcellus. I assumed that it was a coincidence because the whole sequence was about coincidences. I mean, what were the odds that Vincent Vega would happen to be in the bathroom when Butch showed up? What were the odds that Butch and Marcellus would end up in a shop run by a couple of hillbilly rapists? In fact, the whole movie was about how random occurrences can change the course of your entire life - “The best laid schemes of mice and men / Go often askew” and all that. A gun missing two men at short range, another gun going off in a car, a couple robbing a restaurant that happened to contain two armed badasses. In _Pulp Fiction_, the characters had very little control of their own fate. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/179 "2012-02-08T13:22:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I assumed that it was a coincidence because the whole sequence was about coincidences. I mean, what were the odds that Vincent Vega would happen to be in the bathroom when Butch showed up? In _that_ movie? 100%. Did you notice that every time Vincent goes to the bathroom, something bad happens? > [@](#): > > What were the odds that Butch and Marcellus would end up in a shop run by a couple of hillbilly rapists? > > In fact, the whole movie was about how random occurrences can change the course of your entire life - “The best laid schemes of mice and men / Go often askew” and all that. A gun missing two men at short range, another gun going off in a car, a couple robbing a restaurant that happened to contain two armed badasses. In _Pulp Fiction_, the characters had very little control of their own fate. The point is that the encounter isn’t contrived. It is plausible that Marcellus, seeking revenge for Butch’s double-cross would be waiting at Butch’s apartment with one of his soldiers. It is plausible that they’d need food and coffee. It is plausible that Butch, who must return to the apartment because his less-than-brilliant girlfriend left a precious heirloom behind, would run into them. It’s not a wild coincidence that Butch encounters Marcellus. I suppose if anything about the scene is contrived, and despite my earlier flippant answer, it’s that Vincent goes to the bathroom but leaves his gun on the counter. After all, they’re _expecting_ Butch to return (that’s the whole point they’re there in the first place) and that he could show up any time. At this point, you have to fanwank a bit: the silenced machine pistol isn’t Vincent’s, it’s belongs to Marcellus. After Marcellus left for food, Vincent (who’d been there for several hours) figured Butch wasn’t coming back, so he went to the bathroom and forgot about Marcellus’s MAC-10. Then when he heard the noise Butch was making, unwrapping toaster pastries and popping them in the toaster and such, he figured Marcellus had returned. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920/180 "2012-02-08T13:33:28Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, drinking from the grail makes you immortal in the literal sense of never dying. The 700 year old knight in the film proves that. And the fact that it healed Henry Senior’s gunshot wound. > > However, there is a line of dialogue that some people missed which states that the immortality lasts only as long as you remain within the cave. A lot of people failed to note that part, thus they thought that Indy was immortal at the end of the film. I’m curious about this, I haven’t seen the movie in ages, but according to this, the knight doesn’t need to eat or drink. You drink once and you are immortal (as long as you remain in the cave). It’s not like the knight has to drink every three days in order to prevent dying of thirst, right? Also, what was the deal with the cave to begin with? The cup I can see as giving a person immortality, but why does it need to stay in the cave - did they ever explain that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonly-and-frustratingly-misunderstood-plot-points-spoilers-i-guess/611920.md?page=10)