# Commonwealth **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 15, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407 "2007-02-15T21:10:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/1 "2007-02-15T21:10:35Z")
Re: [Commonwealth](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_307.html) Do commonwealths also not share jusistictions? For instance in a commonwealth a city and county do not exist within the same geographical area. Where as in a state it is common to find a city within the borders of a country. True? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/2 "2007-02-16T00:28:12Z")
That particular situation isn’t true of all the four commonwealths as far as I know. Pennsylvania, for example. Erie is the county seat for Erie County. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/3 "2007-02-16T13:56:03Z")
The last I heard, the no-counties-in-cities rule was unique to Virginia, and it was new circa 1960. (IBM had a city/county code-number system back then for their customers to use, which had a special provision for Virginia’s “independent cities”; the whole thing was made obsolete by ZIP codes.) Massachusetts has abolished many county _governments_, but it is keeping them as administrative subdivisions of the state government. Pennsylvania has the usual county arrangement, and, as far as I can tell, so does Kentucky. There’s really no defined difference between a “Commonwealth” state and other states. In the end, “commonwealth” is just Anglo-Saxon for “republic”. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/4 "2007-02-16T14:18:45Z")
I have nothing to add to this thread other than to say that it was I who posed this question to Cecil lo these many years ago. And I did it the old-fashioned way too, with pen and paper, which is how we did things in the olden days, before everyone started using the Internets. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/5 "2007-02-16T14:18:47Z")
Connecticut is, IIRC, the only state to do away with counties entirely. And in Louisiana, of course, they’re called parishes. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/6 "2007-02-16T15:13:30Z")
There are a number of cases where city and county are co-extensive and (usually) share a single government. San Francisco, Honolulu, Indianapolis (I think), Nashville, Jacksonville, and Miami-Dade come quickly to mind. There are a number of cases where (usually large) cities are specifically excluded from being under the dominion of a county. Outside Virginia, where it’s endemic, the only three I’m certain of are Carson City, St. Louis, and Baltimore. As may be noted, there is no direct correlation between the four states that use the style “Commonwealth” and the relationship between city and county. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/7 "2007-02-16T15:52:17Z")
In Alaska, counties are called “boroughs”, which is terrifically funny if you know any Old English. New York City famously includes the whole of five counties:[ul] [li]New York (Manhattan)[/li][li]Bronx (The Bronx)[/li][li]Kings (Brooklyn)[/li][li]Queens (Queens)[/li][li]Richmond (Staten Island)[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/8 "2007-02-16T16:20:57Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] There are a number of cases where city and county are co-extensive and (usually) share a single government. … Miami-Dade come quickly to mind. [/QUOTE] The City of Miami and Miami-Dade County have separate governments. The mayor of Miami is Manny Diaz and the executive mayor of Miami-Dade is Carlos Alvarez. The confusion comes in because Dade County changed its name for basically no reason. And the OP should keep in mind that the word “commonwealth” as used by Kentucky, Massachusetts, Virginia, and Pennsylvania, has precisely _no_ legal or practical consequence whatsoever. Just pretend it says “state” and you’ll know all you need to know. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/9 "2007-02-17T03:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] There are a number of cases where city and county are co-extensive and (usually) share a single government. [/QUOTE] Another example of a city co-extensive with a county is Philadelphia in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Since 1854, all of the municipalities in [Philadelphia County](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_County%2C_Pennsylvania), and the county government itself, were merged into the City of Philadelphia. This arrangement, however, is unique to Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. For example, Pittsburgh is the largest of four incorporated cities in [Allegheny County](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_County%2C_Pennsylvania), along with several other townships, boroughs and unincorporated areas. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/10 "2007-02-17T05:24:13Z")
Columbus, OH also assimilated its entire county (I’m not sure what vestiges, if any, remain of county government). Cynical Clevelanders say that they only did it so they could steal the title of “Ohio’s biggest city”: Cuyahoga County (which contains Cleveland) still has more people than Franklin (Columbus’ county), as does the Cleveland metropolitan area. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commonwealth/392407/11 "2007-02-17T05:41:40Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Columbus, OH also assimilated its entire county (I’m not sure what vestiges, if any, remain of county government). Cynical Clevelanders say that they only did it so they could steal the title of “Ohio’s biggest city”: Cuyahoga County (which contains Cleveland) still has more people than Franklin (Columbus’ county), as does the Cleveland metropolitan area. [/QUOTE] Um, are you certain about this? The [Franklin Co. website](http://www.co.franklin.oh.us/fc/content/citTownVil.cfm) still lists a number of other municipalities besides Columbus within its boundaries… Nor do maps show Columbus’ boundaries as contiguous with the county’s. And the county has a fully-functioning government of its own… :dubious: