# Communication: Substitutes for colloquial usage: retarded **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 16, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238 "2018-12-16T19:10:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/21 "2018-12-18T20:59:06Z")
If the situation is a train wreck, you can also call it a dumpster fire. > [@Ashtura](#): > > In all seriousness, dumb, stupid, probably are okay. Gotta be careful with imbecile and idiot though as those are old-timely technical terms for retarded and honestly should be no less offensive. Disagree, because linguistics doesn’t work that way. A word could have an offensive etymology circa 1204 for example, but that’s only remotely relevant to its current meaning. Current meaning is current meaning and not what current meaning _should_ be based upon what it meant 100 years ago. That’s my position at least: I acknowledge controversy. Also I agree narrowly as you said, “Gotta be careful”; extra care for 100 year old meanings seems reasonable. > [@lingyi](#): > > I stopped using the word ‘retard(ed)’ years ago, but this PSA really hit home: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T549VoLca\_Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T549VoLca_Q) I don’t watch TV. Was that PSA in heavy rotation? Is it part of common knowledge? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/22 "2018-12-18T22:22:10Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If the situation is a train wreck, you can also call it a dumpster fire. > Disagree, because linguistics doesn’t work that way. A word could have an offensive etymology circa 1204 for example, but that’s only remotely relevant to its current meaning. Current meaning is current meaning and not what current meaning _should_ be based upon what it meant 100 years ago. Right, and it seems like we’re in a different time than 100 years ago certainly. 100 years ago, there were a lot of things you wouldn’t say in “polite company”. Probably more than today. Things of sexual, or scatological nature, perhaps blasphemy. It seems like a fairly recent phenomenon to avoid offense on behalf of someone that\* isn’t even in the room\*. I mean, obviously going up to someone with down syndrome and calling them a retard is not something even the most ardent fans of “retarded” would do nowadays. I would hope not anyway. I’m not saying this shift a bad thing. Obviously you shouldn’t say racist things, for example, just because nobody is around who cares. It’s just different. BTW, I do not say retarded, or gay, or most other “newly” offensive terms. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/23 "2018-12-18T23:12:22Z")
I don’t think the objection to “retard” is as simple as “you shouldn’t call mentally disabled people ‘retards’” as it is that when your boss is being an absolute tool, and so you reach for your worst insult, it’s jarring for that insult to be “My boss is [basically like Bob, who works in the mailroom and is utterly inoffensive]”. When a slangy, dismissive, de-humanizing word for a type of people is used as an insult–a pretty serious insult–for a “normal” person, it reinforces all those stereotypes and perpetuates the idea that being like Bob is appalling/awful–that it would be humiliating for anyone to act like Bob, to be equated to Bob. That’s not a healthy way for us to think about people like Bob. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/24 "2018-12-19T15:19:18Z")
I think “retarded” used to be an acceptable term for people who were actually mentally challenged, but I’m not sure if “retard” was ever anything other than an insult. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/25 "2018-12-19T16:26:21Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If the situation is a train wreck, you can also call it a dumpster fire. > Disagree, because linguistics doesn’t work that way. A word could have an offensive etymology circa 1204 for example, but that’s only remotely relevant to its current meaning. Current meaning is current meaning and not what current meaning _should_ be based upon what it meant 100 years ago. > > That’s my position at least: I acknowledge controversy. Also I agree narrowly as you said, “Gotta be careful”; extra care for 100 year old meanings seems reasonable. I don’t watch TV. Was that PSA in heavy rotation? Is it part of common knowledge? Yes, it was. It featured Lauren Potter (who has Down Syndrome) and Jane Lynch, both from Glee and aired in 2011, at least on the channel that showed Glee. I don’t watch a lot of network TV, then and now. I used with watch (and enjoy Glee) with my friend who was really into to. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/26 "2018-12-19T16:30:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If the situation is a train wreck, you can also call it a dumpster fire. > Disagree, because linguistics doesn’t work that way. A word could have an offensive etymology circa 1204 for example, but that’s only remotely relevant to its current meaning. Current meaning is current meaning and not what current meaning _should_ be based upon what it meant 100 years ago. > > That’s my position at least: I acknowledge controversy. Also I agree narrowly as you said, “Gotta be careful”; extra care for 100 year old meanings seems reasonable. I don’t watch TV. Was that PSA in heavy rotation? Is it part of common knowledge? Yes, it was. It featured Lauren Potter (who has Down Syndrome) and Jane Lynch, both from Glee and aired in 2011, at least on the channel that showed Glee. I don’t watch a lot of network TV, then and now, but remember it being shown regularly when I did watch network TV. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/27 "2018-12-19T16:34:55Z")
Since it’s the Christmas season, “nadafinga!” is the appropriate word to use! 😃 Heck, we should work to make it a year round term! 😛 "That guy is such a NADAFINGA! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/28 "2018-12-19T17:10:51Z")
> [@EmilyG](#): > > I think “retarded” used to be an acceptable term for people who were actually mentally challenged “Mentally retarded” [used to be the neutral clinical term](https://medium.com/s/story/the-rise-and-fall-of-mentally-retarded-e3b9eea23018). And by “used to be”, I mean “[until very recently](https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2010/10/05/obama-signs-rosas-law/10547/).” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/29 "2018-12-19T17:40:44Z")
Christopher Titus on “[retard](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqiGWd0-0Os)” Gist: To Retard = to slow down or hold back. Ergo, Retarded = being less than you should be given your physiological, psychological, and social standing. Someone with a bad brain or malfunctioning body is not retarded. But someone who is neurotypical and without unusual physical limitations, who behaves stupidly, IS retarded. It’s a derisive term for the willfully ignorant. That’s how I’ve always used it, even when I was a kid and we had certified retarded kids in the school. Now granted, back then it was a derisive term to compare a neurotypical to those other kids in the padded classroom, so it was hardly respectful to _them_ because they were doing the best they could. It’s not a word I access readily. But it’s worth leaving on the mantlepiece until just the right occasion because it is loaded with shock value. But really, if it’s inappropriate to use the R word, you really have to stay away from labels that are derisive to any particular group. Not because they are objectionable in and of themselves, but because they create a group of subhumans that you want to lump your target into. So idiot, moron, whore, knuckle dragger, Neanderthal, red neck, preppy, thug, punk…where do you stop? Shit, I bristled at “crazy” because technically I am and I don’t particularly care to be grouped with Charles Manson or any number of politicians who cleave to illogical policies. I guess, don’t call people names or make pat diagnoses without first obtaining complete medical histories. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238/30 "2018-12-19T22:22:38Z")
I remember the terms [trainable mentally retarded](https://dictionary.apa.org/trainable-mentally-retarded) and [educable mentally retarded](https://dictionary.apa.org/educable-mentally-retarded) (roughly equivalent to “imbecile” and “moron”, respectively) being used by the school system in which I was educated from 1964-77. Since the links describe the terms as “rarely used”, I wonder if any other Dopers are familiar with “TMR” and “EMR”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communication-substitutes-for-colloquial-usage-retarded/826238.md?page=1)