# Communism--I just don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001 "2003-02-23T19:30:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/21 "2003-02-23T22:35:25Z")
Not at all, and I rather resent that, **Wendell Wagner**. True, I have a history paper with a VERY slight mention of the topic of Communism, but I inteded in NO WAY to use ANY information from this thread or any other in my assignment. The only connection between this thread and my assignment is that my assignment prompted me to PERSONALLY further investigate the feelings toward Communism. I posted this for _my own information_ and not to cheat on my homework. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/22 "2003-02-23T22:51:37Z")
Wow **slipster** , that was incredible. Beautiful recounting of events and insightful interpretation. ::tips hat:: ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/23 "2003-02-23T23:01:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*No, **Zagadka** , it’s the same barrel. The OP asks about why communism is held in such low regard among capitlist countries. Cuba is a communist country. \*\* No, it is a whole different barrel of monkeys, because there is national conflict beyond the Communist:Capitalist measure. Castro went to the Soviets beause we tried to screw him (like we tried to screw everyone else we put in power there). THAT is what I did not want to get into, because you can argue that for years. Not that you can’t argue the rest of it for years, but why mix the two? > [@](#): > > The U.S. encouraged the governments of Russia and other newly freed nations to distribute assets such as banks and oil companies quickly, thereby concentrating resources into a few hands, rather than taking time first to ensure the rule of law and sound economic policies. This has resulted in even greater poverty and the formation of wealthy oligarchies with which American businesses can deal to their advantage. In fact, the U.S. helped engineer precisely the kind of conditions from which American corporations already benefited throughout the third world. That is certianly true, especially in Russia. Books like Sale of the Century by Chrystia Freeland document a lot of the transformations and background of Russian companies changing hands, the various factions, and the influences of foreign investment. It is worth checking out. ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/24 "2003-02-24T00:31:14Z")
best way to understand it: how much do you trust the governmet now? answer that then think: would I want to have to depend on them 100% for absolutely everything and let them make some of the more major decisions of your life? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/25 "2003-02-24T01:00:14Z")
Let’s discard all theoretical considerations. Let’s go solely by historical events that occur frequently in many Communist or formerly-Communist nations, thus establishing a pattern. 1. Famine. Communism is basically focused on _industrial_ economics. Little of it applies to _farming_. So, millions of deaths from hunger occured in Russia under Stalin, China under Mao, Poland, Hungary (no jokes, please, millions dying ain’t funny), & others. Ethiopia’s famine was mostly due to drought, but bad agricultural policies helped it along. Collective farming is largely a failure, & it is no co-incidence that Gorbachov was the Deputy Minister of Agriculture during the _worst_ wheat harvest in Russia’s history. 2)Mass executions. How can I describe this? I can’t even begin. During World War 2, Stalin executed as many of his own citizenns as Hitler did Jews. Or more. Mass slaughter was the rule under Mao, & the butchery of the so-called “Cultural Revolution” is insane, with children betraying parents, & parents children. What was done in Laos under the Khmyar Rouge resulted in the extermination of 50% of the population of their nation in 10 years. Or, keep it simple—the Soviet Union called itself the “Workers’ Paradise”. They set up barbed wire, minefields, & machine-gun-equipped watchtowers to keep the workers from running away. To a place where Communist doctrine said they would be “exploited”. You do the math, pal. ---
**Author:** ![Indefatigable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9d8465/32.png) [@Indefatigable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indefatigable)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/26 "2003-02-24T01:20:13Z")
_Perhaps the reason we have a better grasp on history is that we lived through it._ **Wendell** : That’s assuming that everyone here who’s forty years old actually paid attention to the news for their whole life, and everyone who’s a teenager or a college kid is oblivious to what’s going on in the world. If one is old enough to be writing a paper on communism, one has lived through some history… and if one is interested enough in the subject to ask questions purely to satisfy one’s own curiosity, one probably doesn’t ignore the news either. And how do you figure you’re one of the ‘we’ that BuckleberryFerry was talking about? You hadn’t even posted in the thread yet… _In the 1880s when the 40 hour work week was first argued for by labor unions, both the 40 hour work week and labor unions in general were widely denounced as Communist plots._ I know people who still think like that. All you have to do is mention the word ‘union’ and they start frothing at the mouth about commies. ---
**Author:** ![vasyachkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c5a1d2/32.png) [@vasyachkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vasyachkin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/27 "2003-02-24T01:21:44Z")
according to communists, communism is the inevitable conclusion … that is eventually they think all of the world will live under communism. now we all know that our country is run by rich people and corporations, who definitely dont want to live under communism … so they brainwash the rest of the population, and tell them that communism is bad for everybody, not just the rich mobsters. basically US wanted to exterminate communism before before the US citizens figure out that its actually not that bad for them. because if they did, and adopted the communism ( socialism whatever ) for the US, that would be BAD for those who are in power ( the rich guys ). ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/28 "2003-02-24T01:24:36Z")
**Indefatigable** , I appreciate that. :🤗: ---
**Author:** ![vasyachkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c5a1d2/32.png) [@vasyachkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vasyachkin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/29 "2003-02-24T01:25:37Z")
the funny part is, if communism was actually as bad as it was being made out to be, then there would not be any risk that american people will want to adopt it, and thus no reason to fight it. thus the very fact that US was fighting communism proves that US believed communism to be superior to capitalism. US won though. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/30 "2003-02-24T01:26:17Z")
The biggest problem I see with communism is that it flies in the face of human nature: humans are naturally competitive, and they want to _own_ things. ---
**Author:** ![ProjectOmega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@ProjectOmega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProjectOmega)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/31 "2003-02-24T01:29:59Z")
The USSR and Nazi Germany were run very similarly. Both had leaders with absolute rule, both had limited personal freedoms, neither allowed public ownership. Both called themselves socialist. Neither was accurate in that description. China, Cuba, North Korea and others do the same thing, calling themselves “communist” when, in fact, they are socialist dictatorships. Why do they mislabel their governments? Because it keeps the people happy. It’s easier to cow a population if they think they’re working for the common good or some sort of utopian ideal instead of slaving under an iron fist. Some may start with genuine intentions, but it’s all too easy to slip into a dictatorship. Simply put, at its base level, communism requires a _lack_ of government. Anything else is propaganda. Arguments like “Communism limits personal freedoms,” “Communism is a dictatorship” and so on demonstrate you’re either not sure what you’re talking about, or you’re going by the Western-Cold-War-Propaganda definition. ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/32 "2003-02-24T01:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slipster \* > **When he signed the bill making Martin Luther King Day a federal holiday, a reporter asked President Reagan if this meant he no longer believed that Dr. King was a Communist agent. He said that he wasn’t sure, but he supposed that people would know the truth in a hundred years.** Nitpick: It was actually [35 years](http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1983/101983e.htm). I believe Reagan was referring to when the FBI file on MLK would be released, which should be only 15 years from now. IIRC, there was a report at the time that Reagan had made a similar quip in the press conference rehearsal, but his aides didn’t think he’d be dumb enough to use it if the question came up in the actual press conference. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/33 "2003-02-24T01:44:05Z")
in Capitalism 5% of the people own 95% of the wealth. If that is true (and I would not be surprised if it is) then I choose (ideal)communism! (not the bad kind, which isn’t actually communism, but calls it’self communism) don’t flame me - I admit to knowing fuck all. So I don’t need telling. ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/34 "2003-02-24T01:49:05Z")
No worries, **Lobsang** , the more I learn, the more I’m leaning towards your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/35 "2003-02-24T01:53:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ProjectOmega \* > Simply put, at its base level, communism requires a _lack_ of government. Some might disagree - Lenin, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/36 "2003-02-24T01:56:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lobsang \* > … then I choose (ideal)communism! Can you tell us where we can find this? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/37 "2003-02-24T02:11:15Z")
**Zagadka** , I think we pretty much agree on Cuba. What I meant was that in the eyes of the US (until recently) Cuba was of the same cloth as the rest of the “Evil Empire”. BTW; much of agriculture and many companies are at least semi-communal. The dairy industry and UPS come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/38 "2003-02-24T02:16:36Z")
> [@](#): > > If the government isn’t completely honest about it, they can line their own pockets instead of giving decent amounts back to the people and providing social services like health care and education, so you can end up with a few fat cats ruling a lot of poor, unhealthy, and uneducated people. So what’s the difference in Communism and Capitalism? 😉 After what happened in the Soviet Union, I don’t see how any Communist government could be admired. But there are people in small groups within the USA that choose to live a Communist lifestyle and have been reasonably successful. Some seem to have been able to put the theory in action. Calling someone a “Commie” has been the insult of choice against liberals. And liberals sometimes use “Facist” in the same way. I can remember when there was a big debate about putting floride in the water to help prevent tooth decay. Right wing extremists said that it was a “Communist plot.” What craziness! I have been to one Socialist country that seems very successful to my limited knowledge. No poverty. No extreme wealth. Healthcare for all and five weeks vacation for everyone. There was also a noticeable PRIDE in the work ethic. I like to think that greed is not the only motivating factor. (Actually, I think that this OP was posted by someone in the FBI trying to find out where are the Reds are…) ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/39 "2003-02-24T02:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\* (Actually, I think that this OP was posted by someone in the FBI trying to find out where are the Reds are…) \*\* :rolleyes: Yeah, that’s EXACTLY what I’m trying to do. I’ve not got homework at all. LoL ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001/40 "2003-02-24T02:41:22Z")
Under communism, man oppresses his fellow man; under capitalism, it’s the other way around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communism-i-just-dont-get-it/157001.md?page=3)