# Communist Party "comrades" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 25, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324 "2013-05-25T16:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/21 "2013-05-26T06:07:25Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > there were charts showing trotskyist splits in the British factions that went down a dozen generations. . Same in France. I suppose it’s Trotskist-specific rather than country-specific. An old joke : What are two Trotskits? A party. What are three Trotskists? A splinter. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/22 "2013-05-26T08:41:15Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Unless I am misremembering, “comrade” was used by non-Communists too in 1940s America, anyway. It’s not that people used it as a substitute for a name, but it was used in simple, pleasant way of speaking of a group of friends: “These are my comrades.” > > It is entirely possible that I listened to the radio too much and did not understand. But saying someone was your _comrade_ had a pleasant connotation when I was very young. > > I admit that it does seem strange. It can still be used as a descriptive noun that way and even be somewhat free of the communist undertone. It is when it is used as an adjective (“Comrade **Zoe** ”) or a form of address (like you might use “sir” when you do not know his name) that it sounds like a communist thing. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/23 "2013-05-27T03:09:29Z")
Where’s **Chumpsky** when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/24 "2013-05-27T09:28:38Z")
It’s still used in South Africa, by the SACP stalwarts but also more generally by the ANC and the trade unionists. It gets used a lot in Parliament and political speeches, and generally just signifies that the person you’re addressing was on the right side of the struggle against apartheid. Or even that they weren’t, it gets used sarcastically sometimes as well. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/25 "2013-05-27T10:29:53Z")
It’s been my impression, and I offer this subject to correction by **Terr** or other Russopone with more hands-on knowledge, that in the period before 1917 outside Revolutionary circles in Russia and Ukraine, _tovarishch_ was used, both in 2nd person address and 3rd person conversation, much like _mate_ is in Australian and British colloquial English – “coworker” or “fellow laborer” with a strong working-class connotation implied. Also it’s wise not to forget that, although Russian has a healthy supply of “prenominal honorifics”, it does not as a rule expect the local equivalent of Herr/Signore/Señor/Mister/Monsieur/Kyrios – in the absence of a professional or noble title. the completely proper correct form of address is given name plus patronymic, even a small child addressing a respected adult. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/26 "2013-05-27T15:34:43Z")
It’s not a _de rigeur_ form of address, although I hear it in speeches at congresses and the like. It does get used informally every so often as well. But yeah, it’s used. Anecdote != data, I know, but as a Trotskyist of 20 years standing I like to think I do have some grasp of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/27 "2013-05-27T16:10:21Z")
The Communist Workers Party headquarters here in Atlanta was just over a mile from my place. They’ve closed up shop here in the last year. Don’t know if they’ve moved to cheaper digs, somebody’s garage. Or if they’ve all just realized how silly they look. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/28 "2013-05-27T16:29:39Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It’s still used in France, in speeches where the orator adress a crowd of fellow members. Not only in the communist party, but also the mainstream socialist party, or unions. Much the same in Germany, not only in Communist parties but also in the Social Democratic party (SPD), _Genosse/Genossin_ replacing the usual honorifics _Herr/Frau_ in reference, when addressing members in writing and when formally addressing members orally. But not in unions (as the postwar unions are nonpartisan); unions use _Kollege/Kollegin_ in place of _Herr/Frau_. Another form of address is experimented on by the Pirate Party: in addresses to meeting and with generic antecedents members are often called _Eichhörnchen_ (squirrels) as that noun is neuter and thus avoids gender-war baggage. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/29 "2013-05-27T19:43:52Z")
My brief exposure to overly-socialist labour union politics in Canada - they seemed to delight in calling each other “brother”. Combine that with my catholic education, and my observation was that those who expect to be called “father” are not your father, and those that expect to be called “brother” are not your brothers. I suppose the same logic can be extended to comerades. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/30 "2013-05-27T20:21:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > My brief exposure to overly-socialist labour union politics in Canada - they seemed to delight in calling each other “brother”. Combine that with my catholic education, and my observation was that those who expect to be called “father” are not your father, and those that expect to be called “brother” are not your brothers. Cool story, bro.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/31 "2013-05-27T21:42:49Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > Much the same in Germany, not only in Communist parties but also in the Social Democratic party (SPD)… Well, the British Labour party, which has always been severely anti-marxist, particularly the Old Labourites, who had personal experiences with communists — more so than the conservatives — still sings ‘The Red Flag’ as a party anthem. Probably goes back to the Second International. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/32 "2013-05-28T00:52:22Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Actually, no. _Tovarishch_ товарищ derives from an Old Turkic term, _tavar ishchi_, meaning trader or merchant. In Turkic languages, _tavar_ means ‘wares, trade goods, merchandise, commodities’, originally ‘livestock’. See Clauson, _An Etymological Dictionary of Pre-Thirteenth-Century Turkish_ (Oxford, 1972), p. 442. \*Ish \*means ‘work, business’, so \*ishchi \*(Modern Turkish _işçi_) means ‘worker, businessman’. True inasmuch as it goes. However, there’s reasonably good evidence the word came to be used in a semi-military context due to an actual band of soldiers who called themselves the _Tovarisch_. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324/33 "2013-05-28T03:43:16Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > True inasmuch as it goes. However, there’s reasonably good evidence the word came to be used in a semi-military context due to an actual band of soldiers who called themselves the _Tovarisch_. You post that without a cite? Really? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/communist-party-comrades/659324.md?page=1)