# Companies making incomplete MSDS sheets **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102 "2013-03-27T15:00:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/1 "2013-03-27T15:00:19Z")
I’m wondering because Mobile-1 motor oil is a detergent oil but no detergents are listed on their MSDS (material safety data sheets) sheets. How do they get away with this? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/2 "2013-03-27T15:30:20Z")
One reason might be that there are no detergents in it. I couldn’t find a reference, but Harlan Ellison once ended up eating his words after finding out a detergent gasoline had no special ingredients or ability to reduce pollution. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/3 "2013-03-27T16:14:28Z")
From what I can tell, MSDS sheets are primarily concerned with things that are hazardous and/or toxic, and particularly ones that are hazardous or toxic in commonly encountered amounts and modes. I mean, nothing ever has salt on an MSDS, but if you eat too much, it’ll mess you up. Also, there’s a lot of leeway on MSDSes about proprietary information, and the additive package of Mobil 1 is pretty much THE thing that makes it what it is. Competitors can probably easily duplicate the base oil mixture, but the additives are a closely guarded secret. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/4 "2013-03-27T16:24:14Z")
Are you sure it has detergent in it. I don’t see it listed on the bottle. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/5 "2013-03-27T16:46:48Z")
Actually, I now see on Mobil’s website that all their oils have detergents but I can’t get an MSDS to open. Can you link to an online version of one so I can read it? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/6 "2013-03-27T17:19:06Z")
I finally found one and, no, it doesn’t list the detergent. My guess is that the MSDS needs to explain how to deal with the chemical as a whole. If someone swallows the oil or sets it on fire or spills it, they’re going to do it to _all_ of it, not just the detergent. If you want things like an ingredient makeup or chemical composition, you might have to dig a bit deeper then just the MSDS. The FDA or EPA might be a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/7 "2013-03-27T17:42:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > From what I can tell, MSDS sheets are primarily concerned with things that are hazardous and/or toxic, and particularly ones that are hazardous or toxic in commonly encountered amounts and modes. > > I mean, nothing ever has salt on an MSDS, but if you eat too much, it’ll mess you up. > > Also, there’s a lot of leeway on MSDSes about proprietary information, and the additive package of Mobil 1 is pretty much THE thing that makes it what it is. Competitors can probably easily duplicate the base oil mixture, but the additives are a closely guarded secret. You can find MSDSs for salt ([this one](http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927593) says it is a mutagen, and to get medical help if ingested\*) and other substances considered to be (relatively) non-toxic, including, of course, [water](http://www.dhmo.org/msds/MSDS-DHMO-Kemp.pdf) :p. \*Yeah, MSDSs often go overboard on warnings. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/8 "2013-03-27T18:37:18Z")
There are MSDSs on NaCl, but nobody who is making an MSDS for something which includes salt as an ingredient and which is more complex than “water and salt” will include salt in the list of “dangerous ingredients”. ---
**Author:** ![Blkshp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blkshp/32/7135_2.png) [@Blkshp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blkshp)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/9 "2013-03-27T18:47:26Z")
> [@bump](#): > > From what I can tell, MSDS sheets are primarily concerned with things that are hazardous and/or toxic, and particularly ones that are hazardous or toxic in commonly encountered amounts and modes. > > I mean, nothing ever has salt on an MSDS, but if you eat too much, it’ll mess you up. > > Also, there’s a lot of leeway on MSDSes about proprietary information, and the additive package of Mobil 1 is pretty much THE thing that makes it what it is. Competitors can probably easily duplicate the base oil mixture, but the additives are a closely guarded secret. This. I used to manage the reporting program for a chemical firm and reporting requirements depend on known hazards and the amount of an ingredient present. They are specifically designed to provide information to assist in the treatment of exposure or ingestion, not list list ingredients or formulas. The rules specifically protect propietary formulations (to minimize reverse engineering potential) yet record the presence of known hazards. In some cases constituent chemicals may not need to be reported if they are innocuous or are below certain thresholds. ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/10 "2013-04-25T08:04:44Z")
> [@Blkshp](#): > > This. I used to manage the reporting program for a chemical firm and reporting requirements depend on known hazards and the amount of an ingredient present. They are specifically designed to provide information to assist in the treatment of exposure or ingestion, not list list ingredients or formulas. The rules specifically protect propietary formulations (to minimize reverse engineering potential) yet record the presence of known hazards. In some cases constituent chemicals may not need to be reported if they are innocuous or are below certain thresholds. actually if you look up the msds for something like comet cleaner it will list every ingredient. I heard that unless its less than like .3% they have to list it. So shoulden’t Mobil 1 have to? ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/11 "2013-04-29T02:32:31Z")
anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-incomplete-msds-sheets/654102/12 "2013-04-29T03:29:57Z")
As blkshp suggested: - if the ingredient is hazardous enough it has to be disclosed with the full chemical name (Type I) - if the ingredient is moderately hazardous a generic name may be listed to maintain confidentiality (Type II) - if the ingredient is no hazardous the material does not need to be disclosed (Type III)