# Companies making it damn near impossible to pay them without paying a fee for the pleasure! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792 "2012-06-30T09:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/41 "2012-07-10T18:41:46Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I discovered, almost at the last minute and quite by accident, that the automatic payments worked UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING THE FINAL PAYMENT. Perhaps this is because the amount of the final payment is variable? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/42 "2012-07-10T18:43:46Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Remember when Touch-Tone telephones were first implemented? It was cheaper, faster and better all-around to use the DTMF technology instead of mechanical relays, but Ma Bell charged the consumer extra for it. Some (me included) thought it was enough of an improvement (and sexy) that we paid the extra charge. Now, it’s free as part of most service packages. I remember exactly this, as far back as 1972 (give or take a year). The local phone company (which of course was Ma Bell just about everywhere) was really pushing touch-tone – yet charging extra for it. There was no obvious advantage to having touch-tone in those days that I ever knew of, and I didn’t see anything particularly sexy about it. (Was a touch-tone phone going to help me get laid more often?) When I asked the customer service sales rep why I should pay more for touch-tone, she just mumbled. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/43 "2012-07-10T19:00:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps this is because the amount of the final payment is variable? Exactly this. Well, maybe. I went to the bank and spoke to the loan officer in person and chewed his ass up one wall and down the other over this, because he had never even mentioned it to me before. What if I had been out of town or something, expecting it to be all taken care of? That was exactly the excuse he gave – that the final payment was “variable”. Note, thought, that it was not a large balloon payment. It was going to be something less than the usual monthly payment had been. Why shouldn’t they have just taken that payment automatically? Or at least told me about it ahead of time? Okay, that’s a tad off-topic. So I’ll add something on-topic too: I pay most of my bills on-line, with no problem (or fees) at all. I usually pay quite promptly, so there is plenty of time for it to be fully processed and done. Then, I call my bank about a week afterward (I appreciate getting those automated reports of recent transactions) to verify that it really got paid. That is the really BIG thing I like about on-line payments – that it happens fast enough for me to do that before the late date. One bill I can pay on-line for a several-dollar fee. Screw that. For that, I still use the U. S. Mail. If I don’t trust the company I’m paying (I’m talking about YOU, damn health insurance company!) then I pay that by hand-written check too. That’s one company I suspect, if they think I owe them anything for any reason at any time, they might just help themselves to a piece of my bank account. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/44 "2012-07-10T19:57:53Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > I can tell you that Wells Fargo is horrible for trying to make payments. I think their motto is that if they haven’t managed to get an additional $15, they haven’t done their job. I’ve had my mortgage with WF for 8 years, and never had any issues with paying them or being charged a surcharge, and I’ve gone through paying them by check via mail, paying by phone, and setting up a direct withdrawal online. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/45 "2012-07-10T19:58:43Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I remember exactly this, as far back as 1972 (give or take a year). The local phone company (which of course was Ma Bell just about everywhere) was really pushing touch-tone – yet charging extra for it. There was no obvious advantage to having touch-tone in those days that I ever knew of, and I didn’t see anything particularly sexy about it. (Was a touch-tone phone going to help me get laid more often?) > > When I asked the customer service sales rep why I should pay more for touch-tone, she just mumbled. You can dial a number much faster with touch tone than rotary. That’s about it. So it saved you 5-20 seconds per call, and increased your odds of winning a zany radio call-in contest. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/46 "2012-07-10T20:53:03Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I’ve had my mortgage with WF for 8 years, and never had any issues with paying them or being charged a surcharge, and I’ve gone through paying them by check via mail, paying by phone, and setting up a direct withdrawal online. Thirded, fourthed, whatevered. You can also go to the local branch (assuming you have one) and make payments with no charge/penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/47 "2012-07-10T20:53:11Z")
People in countries with modern banking systems, next time you wonder why Americans still have this quaint attachment to checks, re-read this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/48 "2012-07-10T20:54:58Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I find it both fascinating and bizarre how many presumably grown-up people apparently have no conception of how to properly pay bills, AND apparently have no conception of how the mail works. > > […Instructions on how to mail in a payment snipped…] > > GROW UP, YOU IDIOTS!!! > > Learn how to pay your bills PROPERLY, and everybody around you will thank you! Perhaps you should check your calendar. It’s 2012. There is no reason that you should have to mail a check anymore. In fact, I didn’t even get checks when I got my last checking account. I can’t remember the last time I wrote one. Welcome to the future, Gramps. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/49 "2012-07-10T22:08:32Z")
I signed up for automatic payments so I can avoid the fee. The bank already screwed it up. My first payment on May31 ($275) went through ok. My second payment was due on June 30. I sent them a check for $1500 noted for principle only which they processed on the 28th. They took it as a regular payment and changed my next due date to October 31. I called and said the 1500 was supposed to be principle only and I wanted my regular June payment taken out. The very nice lady I talked with told me they could fix it but not in time for the June 30 payment, but she would be happy to take the June 30 payment for me and she would waive the 10.95 charge and my next payment would come out on July 31. On June 30 I check my bank balance and see they took the automatic payment on the 30th. So now I have made an additional 1500, plus 275 on the 29th and another 275 on the 30th and my next payment date is July 31. EXCEPT on July 2 I get notice that my account is 3 days delinquent and I owe them $524! WTF?! So I call the bank and they are like yes ma’am you are delinquent by 3 days and they will be happy to take my payment over the phone. I said excuse me but I am 1775 ahead and I don’t see how I can be delinquent. They checked it out, apologized, don’t know how it happened but they assured me it would be (and was) fixed in 3 days. Now my next payment date is Jan 31, 2013. I have no idea if they will take the July 31 payment, or if I should mail it in, or what the hell is going on. This is why I prefer online payments that I make myself, I know what is going on and when and I can check my bank account to make sure everything is as it should be. As far as it costing the banks to maintain websites and processing online payments, that is their cost of doing business. I’m sure it’s a lot cheaper than processing mail and paper checks. I was already worried about this bank. I got my welcome letter and first payment coupon 2 days before my first payment was due. Fortunately I had already created an online account so the first payment was on time. I looked them up online and they have hundreds of complaints for _lost_ payments, tacking on additional fees and interest at the end of the loan, illegal collection activities, illegally repossessing cars of active duty service men, etc. I am sure my $574 delinquency would have added up to additional interest and late fees at the end of the loan. I’m glad I’ve kept copies of everything. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/50 "2012-07-10T22:31:02Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I agree, but credit unions aren’t perfect either. A friend of mine found that our local credit union compounds interest on savings accounts quarterly instead of monthly. That’s a big difference. Interest rates are hanging out around 1% to 3% these days. If they had $10,000 in savings and earned 3%, the difference in return between quarterly and monthly compounding is maybe $200 after a year. Sure, that isn’t just a couple of dollars, but it isn’t really “a big difference” compared with $10,000 principal. And good luck finding a credit union paying 3% on $10k. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/51 "2012-07-11T00:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure, the postal service occasionally makes mistakes, but the percentage of mistakes is extremely low. It is to laugh, they screw up more than they get right. I routinely get email notices from the post office of the day my packages will arrive. Not ever, not once, have they actually delivered on the day they specified. The tracking system - beyond stupid. They have lost several packages, called one of the addressees and accused them of having received it! Took 8 months to pay out, for a lost parcel, and then sent two cheques to cover it. As I type this I am awaiting a parcel that was due in ten days, _ **their** _ number. That was on June 20th. You must be joking, right? And all those automated withdrawals and payments? Yeah, good luck stopping them if you ever have to. I know someone who had 3 mtg payments taken out, (plus fees, when there wasn’t money in the account), AFTER the client had stopped the payments. 6 months later, still trying to get the money back! Auto payments are an entirely different kettle of fish, from your ‘cash’ dealings with the bank, as you’ll only discover, when you try to stop them! ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/52 "2012-07-11T01:09:54Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Interest rates are hanging out around 1% to 3% these days. If they had $10,000 in savings and earned 3%, the difference in return between quarterly and monthly compounding is maybe $200 after a year. Sure, that isn’t just a couple of dollars, but it isn’t really “a big difference” compared with $10,000 principal. And good luck finding a credit union paying 3% on $10k. Try more like .8%. But we are talking a lot more than 10K. And $200 a year would be a very big difference, if you don’t think it is please send me $200 right now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/53 "2012-07-11T01:29:08Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Just like the phone companies used to charge $1/month for touch tone service, even though it actually saved them money when people used touch tone instead of rotary dial phones. So fuck them sideways with a spade. Hee, I think I was the last person in NY with a rotary dial phone. Every time they called me and wanted me to go to touch tone I asked if it would cost me more and they replied yes so I declined the service. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/54 "2012-07-11T01:45:14Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > It is to laugh, they screw up more than they get right. > > You must be joking, right? That must be the Canadian postal service, ayh? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/55 "2012-07-11T02:07:24Z")
Actually it’s the US postal service, (this time). And it seems to split 50-50, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/56 "2012-07-11T02:23:52Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Just like the phone companies used to charge $1/month for touch tone service, even though it actually saved them money when people used touch tone instead of rotary dial phones. Not to defend the phone company, but I’m pretty sure they initially justified the fee to the various public service commissions as necessary to cover the cost of conversion from the old switches to the new ones. Of course, I think they were still charging it in some states within the last 10 years (hopefully it’s been dropped everywhere by now), so that reason was gone. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/57 "2012-07-11T02:39:27Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Am I doing something wrong that I let various creditors extract monthly payments directly from my checking account? My mortgage, auto insurance, heating oil and probably several others I can’t recall are handled this way. I’ve never been cheated, never been charged a fee, never had a late payment. Our income is directly deposited, our bills are directly debited, and if we’re on vacation, it all still happens. So why are some of you against doing this? I thought it was a no-brainer… I had my phone bill on automatic payment and then moved to a new place that did not already have a landline installed. Phone company came out and flat out refused to do the install… and then proceeded to bill me monthly for basic service anyway. They wouldn’t stop billing me and dunning my account. I went to my bank and told them to shut off the bill payment but they said they couldn’t??? WTF??? No more auto-payments for me after that. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/58 "2012-07-11T04:56:04Z")
> [@core\_dump](#): > > It gets worse, too. First Premier (credit card company) charges you a monthly fee just to be able to log in and see what your balance is… First Premier also charges a fee (I think it’s $95) just to _apply_ for the card (you only pay if you’re approved) and they charge a fee each time they raise the credit line; including the automatic CLIs, but just the ones requested by the cardholder. [QUOTe=Iggy] Phone company came out and flat out refused to do the install… and then proceeded to bill me monthly for basic service anyway. They wouldn’t stop billing me and dunning my account. I went to my bank and told them to shut off the bill payment but they said they couldn’t??? WTF??? [/QUOTE] Did you set up the automatic payments through your bank, or with the phone company? If it’s the latter then yes, you would need to go through the phone company to cancel the payments, _but_ you bank should also have a process for disputing those charges if the merchant isn’t responsive. I don’t know what the process is with checking accounts, but if you dispute a charge on your credit within the alloted timeframe (usually 60 days) they’ll take a claim from you (usually you have to at least attempt to contract the merchant), put a tempory credit on you account, then retrieve the money from the merchant tru the payment network, and it’s up the merchant to submit documentation that the charges are legit. Usually this works out in the customer’s favor (granted when it doesn’t the CH is stuck with the charges reappearing on their bill). ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/59 "2012-07-11T07:40:49Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > **Crotalus** : I didn’t get the impression **Flyer** was eschewing all online or instant payments, just saying that if and when one’s choice is not-free instant payment or check by mail, the latter is a viable option. It isn’t the postal service that is fucking things up, it is the unethical companies. Did everyone not see where once it took three weeks from mailing date for a payment to be applied? Sometimes they don’t even apply it at all, the check is never cashed and they claim it wasn’t received. I had a bright idea one time to send it registered with sig confirmation, it got returned they weren’t going to fall for that:smack: Again unethical companies are purposefully being incompetent to either get the make payment fee, or the late fee out of you. It seems like their main income stream are these fees! ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792/60 "2012-07-11T13:37:21Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Not to defend the phone company, but I’m pretty sure they initially justified the fee to the various public service commissions as necessary to cover the cost of conversion from the old switches to the new ones. > > Of course, I think they were still charging it in some states within the last 10 years (hopefully it’s been dropped everywhere by now), so that reason was gone. True, but the savings of taking the old rotary-capable switches out of service more than made up for the cost of the new switches over time. So it’s not like they were going to lose money by not charging consumers for the capability. And IIRC, it was something crazy like $1/month, which would have paid for new switches within a year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/companies-making-it-damn-near-impossible-to-pay-them-without-paying-a-fee-for-the-pleasure/626792.md?page=4)