# Comparative performance/effects of univeral health care in countries that have it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685 "2009-04-29T00:32:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/21 "2009-04-30T11:01:20Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > In terms of provider supply, the bugaboo here is the quality of the supply and not whether or not there are enough of them. I don’t want my neurosurgery done by a guy with a marginal IQ and mediocre standardized scores. YMMV, of course, but I’ve been around doctors long enough to know which ones are bright and which ones got through on the lucky plan. Any country can turn out enough physicians–the question becomes how intrinsically bright they are and how well-trained they are. One of the bright spots in American medicine is the amount of innovation which occurs here. While we have our share of pluggers lucky enough to get into medical school with marginal scores under some set-aside program or another, for the most part the high remuneration drives a pool of fairly academically competitive individuals. You need that to advance medicine. We’ll see physicians trained overseas who are utterly unqualified to touch a patient in a physician role here in the US. If, along with UHC, we lower salary incentives, we will see a drop off in the quality of the selection pool over time. Another discussion, I suppose. I generally agree with what you’ve said, but, and maybe I’m missing something here, how does the quality of health care automatically decrease under a UHC system? I think it’s fairly easy to prevent medical doctors who have questionable foreign educations from practicing in the US. Simply don’t recognize the foreign qualification, only US approved qualifications. You might even allow a system where the foreign-trained doctor can apply for an exemption to that rule, provided they are well-regarded in their field or their education and training are deemed of a high enough standard. On the issue of lowering the profitability of the medical profession, and thus losing the best and brightest to other, more profitable, jobs, I can only speak from my own Australian experience and say that the people who score the highest results at high school in Australia go on to become doctors (or vets), almost without exception. Sure, the guys that went into stockbroking might be earning more, but being a doctor is a prestige thing. On the issue of there being good GPs vs not-so-good GPs, I think it works the same way in the US as it does under UHC systems. Word of mouth is a powerful tool, and the good GPs build very nice lives for themselves (and their patients). The bad ones, not so much. And if you ever need specialist care, and you want the very best, then that’s what opt-in private health care insurance covers. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/22 "2009-04-30T12:44:30Z")
Make a doctors appointment or worse a an appointment with a specialist and then tell me we do not have waiting times in America. The profit system is counterproductive to health care. Profits are increased by denying heath care not providing it. Preventive care is just another cost to an insurance company. While most see it as healthy for the populace, insurance companies see it as a drain on short term profits. Our system is flawed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/23 "2009-04-30T13:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > The current US system is so inefficient it’s hard to argue anything could be worse. On the other hand, bureaucracy is inefficient, and much of the current inefficiency is directly related to regulatory oversight. I don’t doubt that may be true, but regulation is also a protective shield for people. For example Cobra can keep people’s healthcare going after they lose their job. Now Cobra arguably has some problems in implementation but it’s basic idea is sound. For comparison what regulation makes the US system inefficient? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/24 "2009-04-30T13:21:34Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > The government may or may not be inneficient, but one thing we do know is they’re not in the profit-making business. Every government employee has a fixed salary and they have no incentive to cut corners or refuse payments. The flip side of that is that they have less of an incentive to do their jobs too. Many people who’ve compared the efficiency and motivation of workers at the DMV & post office with that of private sector employees are wary of turning more sections of the economy into government bureaucracies for this reason. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > My own prinicpal reservation about UHC–not that you asked–is that we won’t ration healthcare but we will make it a universal “right.” There will then be no upper limit to what we spend. No upper limit. In a crazy half-assed way our current ridiculous insurance system helps to ration healthcare, even for the insured. I would think the opposite will be true. If health care is provided by the government, it will automatically be rationed by virtue of government spending levels. This could take the form of the waiting times for non-emergency care that is being discussed. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/25 "2009-04-30T16:46:20Z")
Government employees are not just end of the working world drones. They can work their way up into supervisory positions. They can get promoted or moved into other government jobs. They have incentive to improve themselves and move up the ladder. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/26 "2009-04-30T17:02:45Z")
> [@Cat\_Jones](#): > > … > Hospitals meals are three courses and nursing staff come round with a menu in the morning so you can order your lunch, dinner and breakfast for the next day. > … This has been the standard procedure in every U.S. hospital I’ve been in, as a patient or as a visitor. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/27 "2009-04-30T20:51:12Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > This has been the standard procedure in every U.S. hospital I’ve been in, as a patient or as a visitor. Goo! I said I was comparing France and the UK - both of which have UHC. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/28 "2009-05-01T00:15:09Z")
What I’d like to see here is some comparative figures on **different** UHC systems, e.g., Britain’s and Canada’s. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685/29 "2009-05-01T01:06:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What I’d like to see here is some comparative figures on **different** UHC systems, e.g., Britain’s and Canada’s. Well, you’ll have to more clearly define your question. What do you mean by “more efficient”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparative-performance-effects-of-univeral-health-care-in-countries-that-have-it/494685.md?page=1)