# Compare the "New" City to the "Old" City **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 3, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254 "2014-12-03T20:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/21 "2014-12-04T19:28:17Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > **Toledo, Spain** : Population 84,000. Was once the capital of Spain. There’s a very short street there named “Toledo, Ohio.” > > **Toledo, Ohio** : Population 287,000. Home of MASH’s Corporal Maxwell Klinger. The “new” town has to have “New” in the name to qualify for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/22 "2014-12-04T23:14:40Z")
Not a city, but: New Zealand - Large, English-speaking island country in the south Pacific, named after… …Zeeland - low-lying Dutch province with many islands. Not related: Zealand (Sealand) - Danish island province. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/23 "2014-12-04T23:42:29Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > That’s true of Moscow, ID: Pronounce it as you say Moscow, Russia and you’ll get corrected. “It’s Moss-coe!” Hey, I used to live there! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/24 "2014-12-05T01:44:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Also Versailles, Kentucky - pronounced ver-SALES, I think. Versailles MO is definitely pronounced verr-SALES. We also have Cuba MO, pronounced “COO-buh.” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/25 "2014-12-05T01:47:57Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We also have Cuba MO, pronounced “COO-buh.” Which is how the Cubans pronounce it. Cairo, Illinois is pronounced CARE-oh. The differences between it and the one in Egypt are too many to enumerate. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/26 "2014-12-05T01:52:07Z")
**New Gretna** , NJ, population 543 **Old Gretna** , NJ- Ok, Nobody Actually Knows what they did with the “Old Gretna”. _True Story_ ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/27 "2014-12-05T02:27:02Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > **New Gretna** , NJ, population 543 > > **Old Gretna** , NJ- Ok, Nobody Actually Knows what they did with the “Old Gretna”. > _True Story_ Gretna is a pretty well known town in Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/28 "2014-12-05T03:01:01Z")
Old Hangtown (which was once the third largest city in California) is now called Placerville. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/29 "2014-12-05T15:40:30Z")
Braintree, MA, a Boston suburb with a population over 35,000. New Braintree, MA pretty much in the center of the state, population under 1000. I have a good friend who lives there and have been there many times. Never been the old one though. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/30 "2014-12-05T16:15:03Z")
Baghdad, Iraq, is Iraq’s major city and an urban city for thousands of years. Baghdad-ul-Jadeed (literally “New Baghdad”) in Pakistan was built by the Nawabs of Bahawalpur as their capital outside of Bahawalpur city. Urban sprawl means that it is now part of Bahawalpur proper. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/31 "2014-12-05T16:22:46Z")
Chiang Mai means ‘New City’ in Thai. The Lanna Kingdom had several previous capitals, but I think the ‘New’ is relative to [Wiang Kum Kam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiang_Kum_Kam), a town near Chiang Mai, capital from 1281 to 1296 but abandoned due to flooding. (It was largely forgotten, but recovered by archaeologists just recently.) Founded in 1296, will Chiang Mai win the thread for oldest ‘New’ city? 😉 Old places named ‘New’ are not unusual here. When traveling East I have my choice of two bridges to cross the Chao Phya River. One of the bridges is named ‘New Bridge.’ Guess which one is older? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/32 "2014-12-05T16:26:19Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Gretna is a pretty well known town in Scotland. Well, keep it safe; its way too close to the Winter Solstice. Those Pineys are a vindictive lot & carry torches. “To save yon casino, We Must Burn a Sacrifice…!” “What about Trump…?” “Had his blood swapped out with flame-retardant formaldehyde capped with an asbestos toupee years ago…” “Christie?” “Not enough kindling to get him going…” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/33 "2014-12-05T17:32:59Z")
I personally find this one interesting. Boston, Lincolnshire: 41,000 people, sleepy port town on the east coast of England. Boston, MA: 646,000 people, capitol of Massachusetts, birthplace of US independence movement, etc… New Boston (all of them): Unremarkable small towns in Texas, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts, where there are 4 New Bostons. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/34 "2014-12-06T01:49:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Founded in 1296, will Chiang Mai win the thread for oldest ‘New’ city? 😉 Not even close. The city of Carthage, famously destroyed (and then somewhat less famously rebuilt) by the Romans, was founded as a Phoenician colony some time early in the 1st millennium BC. The name means “New City” in Phoenician. Ah, you say, but we only count new cities that still exist as cities. Well, fine. The Carthaginians went on to found a colony in Spain in 227 BC, which is still around to this day as the city of Cartagena. The name comes from Carthago Nova, which is what the Romans called it after they took it over. That is, “New Carthage”. Meaning “New New City”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/35 "2014-12-06T01:59:50Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > **Toledo, Spain** : Population 84,000. Was once the capital of Spain. There’s a very short street there named “Toledo, Ohio.” Several times capital of several kingdoms, actually. Capital of the Kingdom of Toledo, aka the Visigoth Kingdom of Spain; of the Taifa of Toledo; of Castille (coming and going). Called “Imperial Toledo” because one of the people who had his capital there was HRE Carolus V. Pronounced, in Spanish transcription, _toledo_. Toledo, OH: pronounced, in Spanish transcription, _toliido_. > [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Not even close. The city of Carthage, famously destroyed (and then somewhat less famously rebuilt) by the Romans, was founded as a Phoenician colony some time early in the 1st millennium BC. The name means “New City” in Phoenician. > > Ah, you say, but we only count new cities that still exist as cities. Well, fine. The Carthaginians went on to found a colony in Spain in 227 BC, which is still around to this day as the city of Cartagena. The name comes from Carthago Nova, which is what the Romans called it after they took it over. That is, “New Carthage”. Meaning “New New City”. 😛 And then we have [Cartagena de Indias](http://www.cartagenadeindias.travel/?la=en). Spanish doesn’t usually put “_nueva_” in the name: it’s more likely to have, as in that case, a qualifying appendix. For example, in Spain we have several village pairs and even a monastery with “Upper” (the older, more defensive original) and “Lower”. My favorite is Cerezo de Arriba and Cerezo de Abajo, Upper and Lower Cherry Tree; linguists are likely to prefer the Monasterios de Suso y Yuso de San Millán de la Cogolla, as the Lower one contains the first known documents in written Spanish and Basque. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/36 "2014-12-06T02:08:29Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And then we have [Cartagena de Indias](http://www.cartagenadeindias.travel/?la=en). Spanish doesn’t usually put “_nueva_” in the name: it’s more likely to have, as in that case, a qualifying appendix. Oh, man, I wish they had gone with the “Nueva”. Having a place with a name meaning “New New New City” seems like too good an opportunity to pass up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/37 "2014-12-06T02:31:35Z")
Old Delhi; ahh, now that was a city! ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/38 "2014-12-06T19:18:11Z")
There are many bridges across the Seine in Paris. The oldest (several hundred years old) is called Pont Neuf (New Bridge). ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/39 "2014-12-06T19:53:42Z")
Cairo, Egypt. population 6 million Cairo, Illinois . (pronounced “KAY-ro”. Population 2,831. And its wiki entry has a whole section titled “lynchings”) ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254/40 "2014-12-07T00:57:06Z")
They have a NEW Mexico now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compare-the-new-city-to-the-old-city/706254.md?page=3)