# Comparison of State Debt per capita **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065 "2010-08-03T22:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rafe\_Hollister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Rafe\_Hollister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rafe_Hollister)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/1 "2010-08-03T22:12:15Z")
Using [this](http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/state_debt/index.html) and [this](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/) as my references, some quick calculations showed the following: **Blue States** Mean Debt per capita: $1773 Highest: Connecticut-$4859 Lowest: Iowa-$73 **Red States** Mean Debt per capita: $737 Highest: Kentucky-$1685 Lowest: Nebraska-$15 ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/2 "2010-08-03T22:19:13Z")
Red states rule! ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/3 "2010-08-03T22:24:19Z")
The average federal national debt per capita is about $43,000 ([cite](http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)), so state debts are pretty trivial in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/4 "2010-08-03T23:59:08Z")
What’s the debate? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/5 "2010-08-04T00:09:36Z")
How ironic - a resident of Iowa can’t say “Iowa lot.” ---
**Author:** ![Rafe\_Hollister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Rafe\_Hollister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rafe_Hollister)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/6 "2010-08-04T15:47:22Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > What’s the debate? > > -XT Red states are generally more conservative than blue states. Red states generally have lower debt than blue states. Ergo, conservatives are better stewards of the public’s money than liberals. Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/7 "2010-08-04T16:17:17Z")
Bah. Red states are better at suckling at the federal teat. Farm subsidies and military bases tend to benefit the red states at the expense of the blues. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/8 "2010-08-04T16:23:57Z")
> [@Rafe\_Hollister](#): > > Discuss. Surely there are other factors to consider. For example, an obvious one is high/low/average income. Then, the values you cited converted to percentages of the average income. Might you think of others also? ---
**Author:** ![Rafe\_Hollister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Rafe\_Hollister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rafe_Hollister)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/9 "2010-08-04T16:43:49Z")
10 States with highest per capita debt (all are blue states) 1 CT 4859 2 MA 4606 3 HI 3996 4 NJ 3669 5 NY 3135 6 DE 2489 7 CA 2362 8 WA 2226 9 RI 2127 10 OR 1859 Median household income of those same states [US Census Data](http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/statemedfaminc.html) 1 CT 65644 2 MA 60515 3 HI 64002 4 NJ 64070 5 NY 50643 6 DE 53695 7 CA 57445 8 WA 58472 9 RI 54767 10 OR 51947 Ten Lowest debt per capita 1 NE 15 (red) 2 IA 73 (blue) 3 WY 77 (r) 4 SD 135 (r) 5 AR 312 (r) 6 TN 318 (r) 7 ND 327 (r) 8 MT 358 (r) 9 CO 400 (b) 10 TX 520 (r) Median Income of those states 1 NE 50896 2 IA 50465 3 WY 51977 4 SD 49901 5 AR 40974 6 TN 41240 7 ND 49325 8 MT 44116 9 CO 62217 10 TX 47157 Not sure if this is what **Digital Stimulus** was asking, but it’s almost lunchtime and I gotta hurry up here. It looks like the states where debt is higher also tends to have a great advantage in income. This gives more income tax and property tax from which to draw, yet the debt is still higher. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/10 "2010-08-04T17:19:29Z")
> [@Rafe\_Hollister](#): > > Not sure if this is what **Digital Stimulus** was asking, but it’s almost lunchtime and I gotta hurry up here. It looks like the states where debt is higher also tends to have a great advantage in income. This gives more income tax and property tax from which to draw, yet the debt is still higher. Sorta, except that IMHO, percentages are a better method of comparison. I mean, a billionaire whose debt is slightly negative is likely a “better steward” (whatever you mean by that) of money than a homeless guy who just found a $20 bill, even though the absolute numbers would not show it. But my broader, actual point is that, as economics-challenged as I am, I clearly recognize the rampant oversimplification you’re putting forth. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/11 "2010-08-04T17:56:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Bah. Red states are better at suckling at the federal teat. Farm subsidies and military bases tend to benefit the red states at the expense of the blues. This. I could only find numbers from 2005, but here’s the top ten states in federal dollars received vs federal taxes paid with a red/blue listing based on the same criteria (last presidential election) that you used. [ol] [li]New Mexico - blue[/li][li]Mississippi - red[/li][li]Alaska - red[/li][li]Louisiana - red[/li][li]West Virginia - red[/li][li]North Dakota - red[/li][li]Alabama - red[/li][li]South Dakota - red[/li][li]Kentucky - red[/li][li]Virginia - blue[/li][/ol]That’s 8 of the top ten red. In fact, the only red states NOT in the top 25 are Utah (#29), Georgia (#32) and Texas (#35). Both Utah and Georgia still receive more in federal money than they are taxed, leaving Texas (recieving only $.94 on every dollar paid) the only red state that can be said to pay their own way, let alone helping the rest of the country. Source: [http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html](http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html) Side note: I’m not sure I’d consider Indiana a blue state. It has a popular Republican governor and is pretty conservative overall. They just didn’t like McCain and/or Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/12 "2010-08-04T18:10:22Z")
If we’re discussing state debt doesn’t the red/blue division at the state level make more sense? For example, Connecticut has a Republican Gov. (since 2004) and Lt. Gov. Hawaii also has a Republican Gov (and has for a long time, IIRC), as do NJ (recently elected) and CA (for quite some time). Surely they have a larger impact on state debts than the President does… ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/13 "2010-08-04T18:20:32Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Side note: I’m not sure I’d consider Indiana a blue state. It has a popular Republican governor and is pretty conservative overall. They just didn’t like McCain and/or Palin. It also only went marginally for Obama, partially because of an enormous Democratic get-out-the-vote effort which was boosted by tons of motivated Illinois Democrats who knew they didn’t need to do much in the way of grass-roots stuff in Illinois itself. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/14 "2010-08-04T18:32:11Z")
Here’s the top ten in debt per person along with the governor’s party affiliation: [ol] [li]Connecticut - R[/li][li]Massachusetts - D[/li][li]Hawaii - R[/li][li]New Jersey - R[/li][li]New York - D[/li][li]California - R[/li][li]Washington - D[/li][li]Oregon - D[/li][li]Illinois - D[/li][li]Wisconsin - D[/li][/ol]So only 4 red states in that top ten. Interestingly, only Hawaii on that list gets more in federal funds than they pay in taxes. If you’re doing this for real you’d probably have to compare state legislatures too, but that sounds like work. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/15 "2010-08-04T18:40:46Z")
Missed the edit window: I read that debt per person map wrong. Subtract Illinois and Wisconsin and add Deleware (D) and Rhode Island ®. Looks like it’s actually an even split on that level. Deleware receives less funding than it pays in taxes and Rhode Island breaks even, so Hawaii is still the only one draining federal funds. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/16 "2010-08-04T19:06:46Z")
It seems pretty clear that the real determinant is population density. Here are the states you mention and where they rank in pop. density: Connecticut - 4 Mass - 3 Hawaii - 13 New Jersey - 1 New York - 7 California - 11 Washington - 25 Oregon - 39 Delaware - 6 Rhode Island - 2 Not perfect, but you have all of the top 5 save Maryland, 8 in the top 13, and only one below the mean (Oregon, which is known for very low state tax levels, I believe). ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/17 "2010-08-04T19:13:44Z")
And if you want to get party back into it you could point on that the states in the top-10 in density that _aren’t_ in the top ten in debt (Maryland, Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania) all went for Obama and all have Democratic (or Independent, in FL’s case) governors. If you want to look at state houses, then those states are: Maryland - D, Florida - R, Ohio - Split, Penn - Split. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/18 "2010-08-04T19:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s the top ten in debt per person along with the governor’s party affiliation: > > 1. Connecticut - R > 2. Massachusetts - D > 3. Hawaii - R > 4. New Jersey - R > 5. New York - D > 6. California - R > 7. Washington - D > 8. Oregon - D > 9. Illinois - D > 10. Wisconsin - D > > So only 4 red states in that top ten. _Only_ four? That sounds like a pretty even split to me. On the other hand, you could say that three of the top four are red. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/19 "2010-08-04T20:13:08Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > If we’re discussing state debt doesn’t the red/blue division at the state level make more sense? > > For example, Connecticut has a Republican Gov. (since 2004) and Lt. Gov. Hawaii also has a Republican Gov (and has for a long time, IIRC), as do NJ (recently elected) and CA (for quite some time). Surely they have a larger impact on state debts than the President does… I was wondering this too. When Reagan beat Mondale in '84 Minnesota was the only “blue” state. When Nixon beat McGovern Mas. was the only “blue state.” What happens to the OP when the highest debt and the lowest debt are all red? Personally, I stick with my original idea: Red states rule! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065/20 "2010-08-04T20:14:00Z")
NY, NJ, and CT got screwed especially hard recently thanks to Wall Street being right here. Lot of expected tax money vanished, pooching the budget. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-of-state-debt-per-capita/549065.md?page=2)