# Comparison: Tucson vs Ft Hood **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220 "2011-01-11T15:25:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/21 "2011-01-11T20:58:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Wrong forum. If you want opinions, start an IMHO thread. If you want a debate, declare what it is you want to debate. [**What** else did you expect?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=497699) ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/22 "2011-01-11T22:33:38Z")
> [@What the comparison .... ?!?!](#): > > Political climate? > ? The obvious, and the most important comparison in both cases, is that the lunatic was armed, and the victims were NOT armed. Trust me…it is NEVER a good idea, never a good ending, when the crazy is the only one who is armed. This is a **truism**. . ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/23 "2011-01-11T23:11:13Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > The obvious, and the most important comparison in both cases, is that the lunatic was armed, and the victims were NOT armed. > > Trust me…it is NEVER a good idea, never a good ending, when the crazy is the only one who is armed. This is a **truism**. It’s never a good idea when a crazy person is armed, period. And I’m not sure you’re right anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/24 "2011-01-12T00:17:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If it was religiously motivated, then all Christians and Muslims would be terrorists. The vast, vast majority of both religions are not. Clearly there are other variables at work. I would argue, for instance, that most so-called “Islamic terrorism” is political in nature, and stems from political/economic/social pressures. That presumes that Christianity or Islam operate as singular units which clearly they do not. And you argument about Islamic terrorism being political doesn’t begin to explain the reaction to cartoons or suggestions that a book might be burned. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/25 "2011-01-12T00:17:36Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > The obvious, and the most important comparison in both cases, is that the lunatic was armed, and the victims were NOT armed. > > Trust me…it is NEVER a good idea, never a good ending, when the crazy is the only one who is armed. This is a **truism**. I’m guessing your “solution” would lean less toward disarming the lunatics and more toward making sure every shooting turns into a circular firing squad, eh? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/26 "2011-01-12T00:21:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Call it an educated guess. Whatever the motivation, it wasn’t religion. Religion doesn’t make people shoot people or else all religious people would be spree killers. Religious mania is a symptom of some other disorder. Oh, please. That assumes all religions would have the same doctrine. Even you know better than this. ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/27 "2011-01-12T00:44:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If it was religiously motivated, then all Christians and Muslims would be terrorists. The vast, vast majority of both religions are not. Clearly there are other variables at work. I would argue, for instance, that most so-called “Islamic terrorism” is political in nature, and stems from political/economic/social pressures. Even for someone with a long history of nonsensical arguments, this is inane. Let’s apply this “logic” to other areas and see where it leads: The dragging of a black man to death in Jasper wasn’t racially motivated because then all racists would be murderers. No theft is motivated by poverty because then all poor people would be thieves. No war is ever politically motivated because every country with politicians would be constantly at war with every other country. JEEZ!!! ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/28 "2011-01-12T02:27:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s never a good idea when a crazy person is armed, period. But the tricky part is determining who’s crazy, and who’s not. The scary part is that Jared Lee had no _verified_ history of mental illness – his friends & teachers now say his prior behavior was disturbing, but think about it, how many disturbing people do you meet in any given day? He also had no felony convictions, and that’s all anyone needs to purchase a firearm in a gun-friendly state. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/29 "2011-01-12T02:55:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please. That assumes all religions would have the same doctrine. Even you know better than this. There is no significant moral difference between religions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/30 "2011-01-12T02:56:17Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > But the tricky part is determining who’s crazy, and who’s not. Granted. But I figured as long as we were stating the staggeringly obvious, I figured the point needed refining. 😉 > [@](#): > > The scary part is that Jared Lee had no _verified_ history of mental illness – his friends & teachers now say his prior behavior was disturbing, but think about it, how many disturbing people do you meet in any given day? I’ve met my share of weird people, but the number of people who I thought were really disturbed is very small. He had no verified illness, but he was clearly mentally ill the last few years and you can tell that professor and some other people who knew him had that “I hope I’m not around when this guy snaps” feeling. People said the same kinds of things about the University of Virginia shooter. His classmates used to joke (out of earshot) that he was going to shoot up the school at some point. It’s true that only a small portion of people who are mentally ill ever do something like this, but you did not need to be a trained professional to know something was really wrong with these guys. I wonder how much Loughner’s parents did to try to get help for him. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/31 "2011-01-12T03:14:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no significant moral difference between religions. :smack: > [@Marley23](#): > > People said the same kinds of things about the University of Virginia shooter. His classmates used to joke (out of earshot) that he was going to shoot up the school at some point. It’s true that only a small portion of people who are mentally ill ever do something like this, but you did not need to be a trained professional to know something was really wrong with these guys. I’ve met plenty of weirdos, and I’ve worked with people with genuine mentally illness. Most of them are essentially harmless (as far as I can tell) even though I wouldn’t trust most of them to own a gun, if only for fear of their own safety. I’ve also known some extremely creative people whose works could be interpreted as a sign of insanity, when taken out of context – Stephen King, for example. (Not that I’ve ever met Stephen King personally, but I know where he lives…) Context is everything: prior to 1/8/11, anyone who saw Loughner’s video rants would assume he’s a nutjob, but not necessarily dangerous. > [@Marley23](#): > > I wonder how much Loughner’s parents did to try to get help for him. Last I heard, Loughner’s parents were being totally uncooperative, to the extent of defying a search warrant and barricading themselves in their house. So, it appears that the crazy runs thick in that particular family – we’ll probably learn a LOT more later, as the story continues to unravel itself! ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/32 "2011-01-12T03:31:14Z")
I think the difference is that no one in a position of power in the Democratic party advocated that Muslims should consider “second amendment remedies”, so they have less blood on their hands than Palin and Angle do. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/33 "2011-01-12T03:33:44Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > The obvious, and the most important comparison in both cases, is that the lunatic was armed, and the victims were NOT armed. > > Trust me…it is NEVER a good idea, never a good ending, when the crazy is the only one who is armed. This is a **truism**. > . You really are an evil piece of shit aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/34 "2011-01-12T03:37:41Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > You really are an evil piece of shit aren’t you? Save your insults for the Pit. This is a formal warning. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/35 "2011-01-12T05:00:03Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Last I heard, Loughner’s parents were being totally uncooperative, to the extent of defying a search warrant and barricading themselves in their house. So, it appears that the crazy runs thick in that particular family – we’ll probably learn a LOT more later, as the story continues to unravel itself! They didn’t barricade themselves in, they blocked the front porch because people were coming onto their property (note the news pictures of the skull). When the FBI went to the back door they cooperated. To the extent that they knew how crazy he was is a different matter. I’ve watched parents struggle with adult children who have mental problems. There is little that can be done with adults unless they cooperate. Even when that happens, the probability that they stay on their meds forever is a pipe dream. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/36 "2011-01-12T05:15:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no significant moral difference between religions. Well “moral” is a nice nebulous word. But there is a difference between religion when it comes to a propensity for violence in the name of that religion. I’ll prove the point in a way that even you’ll be able to see it. A. Islam B. Quakerism Which group has a higher incidence of violence? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/37 "2011-01-12T05:18:56Z")
Neither has a propensity for violence (unless you count Nixon). ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/38 "2011-01-12T05:58:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They didn’t barricade themselves in, they blocked the front porch because people were coming onto their property (note the news pictures of the skull). When the FBI went to the back door they cooperated. Okay, so CNN got that part wrong. (Surprise, surprise…) > [@Magiver](#): > > To the extent that they knew how crazy he was is a different matter. I’ve watched parents struggle with adult children who have mental problems. There is little that can be done with adults unless they cooperate. I’m actually more interested in the interviews with the family’s neighbors, who say he was never allowed to play outside, etc. As I said before, sometimes the crazy is something you inherit from your elders. _Sometimes._ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/39 "2011-01-12T06:25:37Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > I’m actually more interested in the interviews with the family’s neighbors, who say he was never allowed to play outside, etc. > > As I said before, sometimes the crazy is something you inherit from your elders. _Sometimes._ I’d like to hear about it too. This guy was a repeat of the Virginia Tech guy and nobody was able to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220/40 "2011-01-12T06:58:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well “moral” is a nice nebulous word. But there is a difference between religion when it comes to a propensity for violence in the name of that religion. I’ll prove the point in a way that even you’ll be able to see it. > > A. Islam > B. Quakerism > > Which group has a higher incidence of violence? Well, don’t keep us in suspense. Any data? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/comparison-tucson-vs-ft-hood/567220.md?page=3)