# Compensation programs for minorities? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160 "2004-12-10T17:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chefIL11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chefIL11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chefIL11)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/1 "2004-12-10T17:34:35Z")
When do you think that minority compensation programs have gone too far? IE: Affirmative action, reparations (as an example in america) etc Also, what are some other minority compensation programs, not just in america but around the world? Do other countries even have minority compensation programs? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/2 "2004-12-10T17:48:15Z")
I am sure there is a largish gray area in this question but I think the following goes too far: > [@](#): > > ``` > Black People in United States have been wondering what they need to do to get paid > for the "forty (40) Acres" and "a mule" which they never received. Well, it is > easier that you think. > > You must: > (1) File a Claim for it > (2) To do this, send your name and address, along with $50.00, > payable to, and send to: > > ``` > > “Robert Brock, CBA Fund” > P.O. Box 15248 > Washington, D.C. 20003 > > _\_ > > Remember, Dr. Robert Brock filed as early as December 9, 1965, demanding $500,000. for each Slaves’ Descendant of African Origin Ancestry. > > SOURCE: [http://www.directblackaction.com/repara\_form.html](http://www.directblackaction.com/repara_form.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/3 "2004-12-10T17:55:14Z")
I guess I should have elaborated. To me minority compensation programs go too far when the benefactors of that compensation is not a direct victim of the injustice that is being sought to correct. If the compensation is in place to correct an existing inequity then fine. Of course, there can be a great deal of debate on whether a given compensation is sufficient or useful in correcting an inequity or in sufficiently owning up as a society to whatever it is a given group is on about. For that though you’d have to examine each proposal on a case-by-case basis. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/4 "2004-12-10T20:11:10Z")
There are quite a few “affirmative action” style programs internationally. Thomas Sowell has done a lot of study on this. He touches on a few examples in _Migrantions and Cultures_. I can’t really go into detail, however, since I don’t have a copy of the book in front of me. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/5 "2004-12-10T20:31:58Z")
In India there is a very strong affirmative action program for _dalits_ (untouchables) and _adavasis_ (native people outdating the Aryan majority by a couple thousand years). Adavasis in particular are facing a lot of issues regarding being forced off their land for public works projects, having their identity scoured in “modernization” efforts and losing their simple but sustainable way of life. They are very much the equivelent of our Native Americans and are facing the same issues or native people faced a hundred years ago. India’s program reserves a large percentage of university seats and government jobs particularly for these minorities. I get the impression it’s been moderately successful at bringing these extremely underprivledged minorities into society and giving them prospects in life they would have never had without government intervention, but it can’t make up for the fact that people are still being forced off their land and relocated into wasteland and subsequent crushing poverty. There are also programs by companies that used Nazi slave labor to pay former prisoners (or their decendents) for their work and the profit these companies made (and still benefit from) in this time period. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/6 "2004-12-11T01:39:40Z")
ChefIL11, you’re joining the debate quite late, both in terms of this board and in terms of affirmative action as a policy in the US. AA has been substantially curtailed in throughout the US by SCOTUS decisions, and banned outright in state and local government by popular referendum in California. Has it “gone too far”? No. It’s been cut back. It’s not accurate to describe AA as “compensation programs”. A compensation program would be reparations. A separate issue for a separate thread. AA has usually been described as a tool to promote ethnic and gender “diversity”, that is, representation of groups that are usually underrepresented if not entirely excluded. The Fed Gov started formal AA programs to overcome persistent discrimination against blacks by craft unions in the construction industry in Philadelphia in 1970. These organizations would simply not take any blacks as employees/members period. Quotas were seen as the only way break the resistance to equal employment laws by organizations receiving millions of dollars of government funds. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/7 "2004-12-11T01:42:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am sure there is a largish gray area in this question but I think the following goes too far: This ad has nothing to do with reparations and everything to do with conning people out of $50. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/8 "2004-12-11T06:09:12Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > They are very much the equivelent of our Native Americans Wow, they’re India’s Indians. Cosmic, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/9 "2004-12-11T22:06:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This ad has nothing to do with reparations and everything to do with conning people out of $50. I agree completely but he is attempting to tap into a sense of entitlement African-Americans (at least some) still feel about this. There are still some serious attempts (and not overt scams like this one) to see reparations paid to African-Americans. As much as the above is a scam I find even the more serious attempts at collecting money for African-Americans specious at best and little better at the bottom line than the above guy as a simple money grab. While the US does need to own up to its history of slavery I think Affirmative Action programs and their ilk are the best way to go in the here and now. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/10 "2004-12-12T01:42:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If the compensation is in place to correct an existing inequity then fine. Of course, there can be a great deal of debate on whether a given compensation is sufficient or useful in correcting an inequity or in sufficiently owning up as a society to whatever it is a given group is on about. For that though you’d have to examine each proposal on a case-by-case basis. Yeah…The problem with your principle is I am not sure you would find much disagreement with it but you would still find a lot of disagreement with what it means. I suppose some of the “reparations” supporters might say compensation should be made because of a past inequity but I think most would say, if pressed on the issue, that the reason compensation must still be made is that the inequity still persists today. Even if you assumed (wrongly) that there was no discrimination existing today, the current structure of wealth distribution in our society would reflect what had happened in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/11 "2004-12-12T08:10:22Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > I suppose some of the “reparations” supporters might say compensation should be made because of a past inequity but I think most would say, if pressed on the issue, that the reason compensation must still be made is that the inequity still persists today. I disagree that direct payment to a specific group is the appropriate means to pursue rectifying past wrongs…at least wrongs done so far in the past that any meaningful way of distinguishing who would rightly be benefactors and who should pay is near impossible. The population of the US jumped dramatically via immigration _after_ the Civil War. Should people who trace their ancestry in the US only one or two generations pay reparations to African Americans? Would only African Americans who can trace their lineage back into the Civil War (at the minimum) be allowed to collect? How many people can provably manage such a thing? How much would it cost to have a government agency sort through all of that? Most importantly, would such payouts actually achieve anything of value to the society as a whole? I simply do not think the Robin Hood method of wealth redistribution is the way to go. That discrimination still exists today is without doubt. The US does realize this and there are many programs and laws in existence to try and level it out for everyone. Whether you believe what is done is effective enough (discrimination still exists but the problem is less than it was 50 years ago so improved yes, crossed the finish line…not even close) or sufficient is another matter and a deeply complex subject in its own right. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compensation-programs-for-minorities/279160/12 "2004-12-14T15:56:44Z")
Can someone summarize or give a few examples of AA etc. programs that exist right now as a basis for comparison?