# Complaint against samclem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909 "2007-04-27T23:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/181 "2007-04-30T00:26:49Z")
More to the point, he would never get away with it! Nobody would stand for that, going back in the Wayback Machine to find a bannable offense for action, and then acting upon it when it wasn’t acted upon _then_! I don’t know if your fans would be infuriated, but I bet they’d both say something. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/182 "2007-04-30T00:35:25Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] More to the point, he would never get away with it! Nobody would stand for that, going back in the Wayback Machine to find a bannable offense for action, and then acting upon it when it wasn’t acted upon _then_! I don’t know if your fans would be infuriated, but I bet they’d both say something. [/QUOTE] No I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/183 "2007-04-30T00:52:01Z")
ok, so maybe banning isn’t really a legitimate fear… but what about the irreparable damage done to his _reputation_ by such an insidious allegation of trollery? One works so hard, for so long, to build it, and then to have it torn down so cruelly… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/184 "2007-04-30T01:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] Fuck you. [/quote] Dear me, I do have to use shorter words to get through to you, don’t I? > [@](#): > > Right. Prior to GWB, this board was a veritable conservative circle jerk. That’s another thing the party loyalists get bashed for here - making up shit like that and calling it fact. > [@](#): > > Ooh, you really got me there. You continue to make my point. Keep posting. Is it \*hard \* to type with your thumb in your mouth? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/185 "2007-04-30T01:11:06Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] It is with great regret that we announce the passing of SDMB hamster Speedo. During the stampede of posters combing the archives in a desperate search to stick it to **Scylla** , Speedo succumbed to a cardial infarcation and methedrine overdose. He received the traditional “burial at sea”, with all appropriate honors. [/QUOTE] with a banner reading “Mission Accomplished” in the background? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/186 "2007-04-30T01:18:52Z")
on on the main thread subject: I think **samclems** post was wrong. but I also don’t /didn’t see it as him specfically asking other posters to help him get evidence towards a ban. I also think **Scylla’s** smart enough to know this, but is not above using the situation to his advantage. there, now, I’ve probably pissed off both sides. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/187 "2007-04-30T01:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=wring] there, now, I’ve probably pissed off both sides. [/QUOTE] Not me. Hey! you’re a liberal, right? right? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/188 "2007-04-30T01:38:06Z")
yes, the founder of the “liberal, but not a fucking lunatic” society. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/189 "2007-04-30T01:46:34Z")
[QUOTE=wring] on on the main thread subject: I think **samclems** post was wrong. but I also don’t /didn’t see it as him specfically asking other posters to help him get evidence towards a ban. I also think **Scylla’s** smart enough to know this, but is not above using the situation to his advantage. [/QUOTE] I know that no such post exists, so I was never worried about that. What I was worried about was getting misrepresented. The very thread we are talking about was founded by deliberately misrepresenting my arguments to conclude that I was endorsing genocide and thought such to be a favorable outcome. Someone eager to do so, could easily go back and find something to misrepresent and claim that I was a self-admitted troll. Several people actually went and did this and posted their results here. Now, of course they could say that they would never seek to ban me over these old things. But, they could use those old things to support banning me for the current things they are misrepresenting me about. It probably wouldn’t work… this time. But, a banning is usually a gradual thing. It happens because of a pattern. I’ll bet **Samclem** didn’t read my whole arguements in the original thread very carefully. Somebody was just saying that I was promoting genocide and people were arguing about it, and didn’t **Scylla** he was a troll who posted just for effect anyway? The next time something I say is controversial, or misrrepresented, the die is cast, a pattern exists. As to using the situation to my advantage. Absolutely. It is to my advantage that I not be misrepresented or percieved as a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/190 "2007-04-30T01:49:42Z")
Once people start saying you’re a troll pretty soon the only space for rent is under a bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/191 "2007-04-30T02:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Dear me, I do have to use shorter words to get through to you, don’t I? [/quote] Was “fuck you” short enough for you? > [@](#): > > That’s another thing the party loyalists get bashed for here - making up shit like that and calling it fact. Oh, so you admit that it was hostile to conservatives prior to GWB? Thanks, that was easier than I thought. > [@](#): > > Is it \*hard \* to type with your thumb in your mouth? No. Is it hard to type with \*your \* thumb up your ass? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/192 "2007-04-30T02:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] You’re conflating, as in fairness many do, a conservative ideology (whether one is referring to fiscal or social or foreign-policy conservatism, they’re not at all the same thing) with fealty to the Republican Party and the Bush Administration. They have been so intertwined in recent years, for very familiar reasons, that it’s become very difficult to draw a distinction anymore. But the growing number of self-styled conservatives who are now doing so, drawing that distinction once again, shows that it is possible to restore that distinction. Conservatives do \*not \* get bashed here for conservatism. They get bashed for fealty to the GOP and Bush over country, in the face of fact, and without regard for the human consequences, as is proper for those defending the intellectually and morally indefensible. But the GOP and Bush are, to explain again, not coterminous with conservatism, however you wish to define the term. [/QUOTE] Thank you. As a conservative (sort of) and an unremitting enemy of the Bush Administration, it’s nice to know that some people can see the difference between being conservative (sort of) and being batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/193 "2007-04-30T03:00:03Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Once people start saying you’re a troll pretty soon the only space for rent is under a bridge. [/QUOTE] That’s true enough. And compounding the problem is that a particular admin has a very short fuse, shoots from the hip, and sometimes seems to be severly comprehension impaired — all while making judgments on years old misinformation and stereotypes. And no, I won’t say who. I just wanted to confirm that a rep can be born out of nothing more than the sheer consensus of an ad hoc pile-on, and it’s partly due to what I’ve noted. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/194 "2007-04-30T03:03:34Z")
The board used to have a liberal v. conserative undercurrent. Lately it’s been as subtle as a tsunami. And it’s making this place about as fun as a tsunami. If you have children and spouses and friends whom you are ignoring in order to continue waging this ridiculous “Us v. Them” battle, you really need to realign your priorities. Shame on both Samclem and Scylla for squandering their considerable talents on this tiresome battle of ideology and wills. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/195 "2007-04-30T03:10:04Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I just wanted to confirm that a rep can be born out of nothing more than the sheer consensus of an ad hoc pile-on, and it’s partly due to what I’ve noted. [/QUOTE] No, a rep can be born on evidence. Had you used the word “continued”, I’d agree with you. It is difficult to change a rep once established, here as in real life. It takes persistence and patience. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/196 "2007-04-30T04:29:48Z")
If one were to regard this thread as a sample of conservative thought and expression, one would easily conclude that conservatives are (almost all) whiny pussies. The reason why many conservatives have left is that they were pretty much the party-before-country type of Republicans. Of course it is getting unpleasant because it’s getting harder and harder to be that type of Republican these days. But they can’t admit or acknowledge this, so they’ll cry foul and claim to have been attacked for their beliefs rather than their behavior. I’d love for the board to maintain a strong representation of conservative thinking. Now all we need to do is get some strong conservatives. The ones we have represented in this thread are pretty sad. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/197 "2007-04-30T12:06:53Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] No, a rep can be born on evidence. [/quote] Why the “no”? It _can_ be born from evidence, but it also _can_, as I said, be born from bullshit gossip and mindless consensus. There’s no reason to deny one and accept the other. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/198 "2007-04-30T13:16:59Z")
What a thread. It’s got it all. A whiny OP. A drama queen declaring his final post. The confusion between acting as a moderator and as a poster. Petty sniping. Clashing egos. The wailing of conservatives. It’s a perfect microcosm of the complaints, accusations, and drama that have been done, over and over and over, since this board began. I suggest we adopt this thread as a template for all the crybabies in the future to use for their threads. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/199 "2007-04-30T13:30:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Conservatives do not get bashed here for conservatism. They get bashed for fealty to the GOP and Bush over country This part is, almost unbelievably, sort of close to the truth. I grant you, given who we are dealing with when we read it, this is not very true, but in the spirit of “let’s give the retarded three-year-old a gold star for using the potty even if he forgot to wipe himself or flush”, I will give him credit for it. One gets piled on and Pitted somewhat less even if you are a Republican, but the price of this is that you must post a disclaimer that you hate Bush. It seems to be necessary to knuckle your forelock in front of this before the Usual Suspects can overcome their reflexive attack mode to react to anything that contains the word “Bush”. I don’t do that, which is why the knee-jerkers tend to go into their act. I and others have gone around and around (and around) with many of them to the point where little amusement can be derived from the process - once you have seen four or five hundred attempts to change a thread around to “Bush lied about Iraq and 9/11”, you’ve seen them all. [QUOTE=tomndebb] There is a small contingent of rabidly anti-Bush posters and a smaller contingent of rabidly pro-Bush posters who wander through **GD** making idiotic claims about “bushiviks” or “the usual suspects.” Neither gets to call the other names. [/quote] This is pretty obviously wrong - I have never been warned for mentioning the Usual Suspects, and no one has ever been warned for calling non-Bush haters anything at all. > [@](#): > > Each gets challenged on their more outrageous claims. Not by the mods, as a general rule, and certainly not by you. I didn’t notice you springing into the Pitting that triggered all this to point out that **Scylla** did not, in fact, advocate genocide. > [@](#): > > The only time I interact with **Shodan** , at all, is when he makes one of his broad-brush insupportable claims (generally about the SDMB or the staff). In **GD** I point out his egregious errors and ignore his smaller claims. In the **Pit** I point out his errors and note that he is simply inventing things. I have never gone after **Shodan** with a personal attack, (possibly with a smart-assed response, but not with any full-blown attack), and have even allowed a few of his minor falsehoods to get past me in **GD** if it did not seem as though the thread could support one more corrective hijack. Actually, that depends on your point of view. Your general MO seems to be to assert that a point of view with which you disagree is necessarily made in bad faith. You sometimes [seem to think](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6948425&postcount=45) that personal attacks are bad for the discussion, or [instruct other Dopers to ignore remarks like “you have absolutely no contribution to make”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7167822&highlight=personal#post7167822) but only, it seems, for those with whom you do not agree. In cases where you don’t, [the rules seem much more flexible.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7225760&postcount=49) Yet you seem to have no problem with the reflexive assumption that I am deliberately posting falsely [out of malice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364151). You ruled out the possibility that any error could possibly be other than deliberate - until you were caught in an error in the same thread. Then, of course, the standards immediately changed, and you insisted that **you** should always be given the benefit of the doubt. To be fair, of course, you do not limit this to me alone, but, as I mentioned, to posters with which you disagree. Which, on this board, means the minority of those for whom hatred of Bush does not form the basis and pinnacle of their political thinking. Such as it is. And making a discussion personal without adding anything to a discussion seems to be something [other moderators](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7524390&highlight=Shodan#post7524390) are guilty of as well, and aimed at a non-Bush hater, and on a topic which is very much a sacred cow among knee-jerkers. > [@](#): > > If someone insults **Shodan** in **GD** , I will admonish that poster just as I would admonish him or her for insulting **Tamerlane** or anyone else. This part is true, in general, and the comparison to **Tamerlane** flattering beyond my deserts. Whoops, this is getting long, and I have to do some real work. This should be long enough to satisfy **Apos** , so he will have to bide his time until I post something else appropriately dismissive. 😉 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/200 "2007-04-30T14:27:41Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] What a thread. It’s got it all. A whiny OP. A drama queen declaring his final post. The confusion between acting as a moderator and as a poster. Petty sniping. Clashing egos. The wailing of conservatives. [/QUOTE] You forgot the hysterical squealing from Leftists. Also the bizarre, almost stalking behavior of one member obsessed with another. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=11)