# Complaint against samclem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909 "2007-04-27T23:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/201 "2007-04-30T14:32:09Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Also the bizarre, almost stalking behavior of one member obsessed with another. [/QUOTE] You’re going to have to print a program to keep track of every poster guilty of this. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/202 "2007-04-30T15:03:24Z")
Would taking photos of **Liberal** as he goes about his day and then relaxing upon an evening by masturbating while looking at them and reading printouts of his posts be stalkerish? If so, er, nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/203 "2007-04-30T15:14:51Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] This should be long enough to satisfy **Apos** [/QUOTE] Sadly no: I never denied that you would go on at length about your travails and mistreatments and persecution (note that this is the second part). In fact, I’m startled by how restrained and curt you’ve been on this, your favorite subject. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/204 "2007-04-30T15:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Why the “no”? It _can_ be born from evidence, but it also _can_, as I said, be born from bullshit gossip and mindless consensus. There’s no reason to deny one and accept the other. [/QUOTE] You are, of course, correct. I’m not sure what I was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/205 "2007-04-30T16:25:48Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] Sadly no: I never denied that you would go on at length about your travails and mistreatments and persecution (note that this is the second part). In fact, I’m startled by how restrained and curt you’ve been on this, your favorite subject. [/QUOTE] Actually, “all you ever post is drive-bys” is pretty much a denial that I go on at length. Now you are changing your tune to kvetch about how I go on at length, without any attempt to address the substance of _anything_ I have posted. All you are gonna do is complain about whatever I post (unless I agree with you). So the hell with it; now it’s up to you. You want me to post something with substance, then either post something yourself that is worth the electrons it’s written in, else get used to being dismissed with my usual snicker of contempt. You want substance, you are going to have to earn it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/206 "2007-04-30T17:30:45Z")
[QUOTE=Kal] Would taking photos of **Liberal** as he goes about his day and then relaxing upon an evening by masturbating while looking at them and reading printouts of his posts be stalkerish? [/QUOTE] Stalking? Of course not. Why, who on this board hasn’t passed a pleasant evening at home with nothing more than a box of tissues, a bottle of hand lotion, and a browser open on [www.ilovelibby.com](http://www.ilovelibby.com)? Liked your uploads the other day. You’ve really got the hang of that zoom lense and low light settings. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/207 "2007-04-30T18:09:12Z")
All right, Mr. DeMille. I’m ready for my close-up. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/208 "2007-04-30T19:07:32Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Actually, “all you ever post is drive-bys” is pretty much a denial that I go on at length. Now you are changing your tune to kvetch about how I go on at length, without any attempt to address the substance of _anything_ I have posted. [/quote] You’re not really making any sense. I noted two things you do: post dismissive contempt-filled drivebys AND rant on and on about the conspiracy out to destroy you. In this thread you’re doing the latter. What’s the problem exactly? > [@](#): > > All you are gonna do is complain about whatever I post (unless I agree with you). It doesn’t much matter whether I agree with you: it matters whether your pointed cryptic questions are on topic or not. Generally, in my experience they seem both insincere as well as discursive. That’s my opinion, of course, and I’m giving it. If you do post something substantive on a topic that I come across, then I’ll address that in a substantive way. This thread is about the supposed bias of moderators and, pretty directly, you and people like you who think you are persecuted or mistreated. > [@](#): > > You want substance, you are going to have to earn it. Oh, how bereft I’m going to be without earning your clever insights! Howsoever will I cope! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/209 "2007-05-01T09:59:38Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] This thread is about the supposed bias of moderators and, pretty directly, you and people like you who think you are persecuted or mistreated. [/QUOTE] Can you put that to him in a way that doesn’t sound so much like what it ridicules? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/210 "2007-05-01T11:35:09Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Can you put that to him in a way that doesn’t sound so much like what it ridicules? [/QUOTE] 😕 I don’t see anything in there that sounds like **Apos** complaining about persecution or mistreatment. Then again, I may be on your suspected stalkers list, depending on just how your stalker-detection headgear is calibrated today. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/211 "2007-05-01T12:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] You’re not really making any sense. I noted two things you do: post dismissive contempt-filled drivebys AND rant on and on about the conspiracy out to destroy you. In this thread you’re doing the latter. What’s the problem exactly? [/quote] You forgot my third point, which is that you are an idiot. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BooBoo316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@BooBoo316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BooBoo316)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/212 "2007-05-01T15:38:52Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] I would never have posted what I did, IF I were looking at this as a moderator. I wasn’t. Was I not clear about this? [/QUOTE] This is possibly a big mistake, but I feel the need to respond to this thread. I won’t be able to respond to replies until much later today (night shift, sigh), but I will be back in this thread later if anyone thinks my comments are worthwhile. This is directed at **samclem** , but applies to all mods and admins. **samclem** , you are _never_ not a mod. Whenever you post, the tag Moderator is under your name. This carries a certain weight, whether you want it to or not. I am a supervisor at my work. I have a good relationship with the people I supervise, but I have no illusion they think that anything goes while we are not at work. If one of my workers lights up a crack pipe in front of me at a party, how could I overlook that and let them come to work the next day? Because I was “just a guy” at a party, not officially a supervisor at the time? If I asked the other guys “Hey have you ever seen **Jo Blo** light up at a party?”, and they say “Yes”…how do I overlook that? If you were friends with someone on the board who out of the blue said “You know, I’ve had a sock on the board for three years”, what would you do? Would you be just another poster…or a mod? I understand that you need to be able to express yourself, but you can’t really expect to be able to fully separate your role as a mod from being a regular member. This board tries to have it both ways, but it causes this kind of mess on far too regular a basis. Maybe TPTB could allow dual accounts, one for mod activity and one for general posting. That could reduce some confusion, but may not be available under the software. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/213 "2007-05-01T16:12:06Z")
[QUOTE=BooBoo316] **samclem** , you are _never_ not a mod. Whenever you post, the tag Moderator is under your name. This carries a certain weight, whether you want it to or not. [/QUOTE] I make no claim to be a Doper-Super-Genius, nor am I the most alert and observant reader. Yet, I have never had a problem distinguishing between X posting as a poster and X posting as a mod. Does anyone actually have this problem, or do they simply want to believe that someone, somewhere, if the moon is full and they’re wearing plaid could possibly potentially have the problem for a split second? I’ve been on dozens of messageboards. I’ve never seen any where the mods aren’t allowed to participate and must have a second account for purely poster-like comments. Is this another claim of Doper Exceptionalism? I know people want to think that Dopers are smarter, better informed, taller, and wittier than other people. Do we want to add that we are uniquely unable to distinguish between moderator actions and general posting? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/214 "2007-05-01T16:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I don’t see anything in there that sounds like **Apos** complaining about persecution or mistreatment. [/quote] Me neither. What I see is Apos contributing to what he denies is happening. It’s like saying, “No, dear, there is no condescension. Now run along.” > [@](#): > > Then again, I may be on your suspected stalkers list, depending on just how your stalker-detection headgear is calibrated today. And like that too. Digging for the sake of the jab and nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/215 "2007-05-01T16:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] I’ve been on dozens of messageboards. I’ve never seen any where the mods aren’t allowed to participate and must have a second account for purely poster-like comments. [/QUOTE] That’s true, JS. But when I modded, we were told that we must always make the distinction perfectly clear. We had procedures for dealing with trolls, and they didn’t include starting or joining ad populum witch-hunts with vague references about years old recollections. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/216 "2007-05-01T16:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That’s true, JS. But when I modded, we were told that we must always make the distinction perfectly clear. [/QUOTE] Then demonstrate how it wasn’t in this case. Since I believe that every mod uses some form of announcement if they are acting in official capacity, and since no one is complaining about these posts coming with an announcement of official capacity, then I do not understand how it can be argued that it wasn’t perfectly clear. If there is no announcement, it’s not an official post. That’s it. That’s perfectly clear for every board I’ve ever been on except this one. In fact, on most boards, people seem able to understand official posts without the need for an announcement, but again, Doper Exceptionalism seems to be in vogue–it doesn’t seem to matter if that makes us exceptionally dense, so long as we’re exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/217 "2007-05-01T16:28:02Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Then demonstrate how it wasn’t in this case. [/QUOTE] That’s already been done, and it’s why Samclem apologized. Check out the earlier portions of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/218 "2007-05-01T16:47:32Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That’s already been done, and it’s why Samclem apologized. Check out the earlier portions of the thread. [/QUOTE] He apologized because people claimed he was unclear, not because he was demonstrated to be unclear. But even that is immaterial. On no other board I’ve ever frequented would anyone claim he was unclear. “We’re Dopers! We’re Exceptionally Stupid! We’re Exceptionally Dim! We’re Exceptionally Unable to Understand Written English Unless It Comes With a Decoder Ring!” So the exceptionalism I see is the exceptional desire to claim anything, even stupidity, if that’s what it takes to be special. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/219 "2007-05-01T16:53:39Z")
Part of what **BooBoo** was trying to say, though, is that once a Mod has information about a poster, such as evidence that he or she is trolling, the Mod is going to have to act on that information…regardless of how the information was obtained. So it seems tacky for a mod to go into a thread and ask for that evidence, while participating as a regular poster. The analogy **BooBoo** used is a good one. I have also been in situations where I supervised people who I was also friends with. Would it be kosher for me to go out for drinks with those people, and probe for info _as a friend_, which I may have to use against them in my position as a supervisor? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/220 "2007-05-01T16:54:03Z")
I think he apologized 'cause he wanted to see if **Scylla’s** head would actually explode. Cunning rascal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=12)