# Complaint against samclem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909 "2007-04-27T23:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/61 "2007-04-28T05:37:53Z")
Got it in one, **Autolycus**. And that was the _blush_ that I was hoping might taste like White Zinfndel. I still have a bottle of something called Foggy Bay American White Table Wine (although it’s really kind of orange) to get through, and I’m frightened. **’luci** , I’m gonna be a party pooper, and let the cat out of the bag: **\<3** is a sideways heart in leetspeak. and **1nt0rn3tz0rz upbringing \>\_\<** means “internet [zorz] upbringing 🆒” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/62 "2007-04-28T05:44:02Z")
Well, just tell them to stay off my lawn. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/63 "2007-04-28T05:47:05Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] … And **Una** , please accept the good wishes of a fellow Doper that you find the strength to get through whatever rough times you’re currently experiencing… [/QUOTE] Seconded, and unanimously approved. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/64 "2007-04-28T05:56:58Z")
Well I’ve never trusted **samclem** since that thread where he admitted that he cheated on his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/65 "2007-04-28T06:50:07Z")
[QUOTE=brownie55] Is there no depth to which you will not stoop in order to make it about you? [/QUOTE] What the fuck are you going on about? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/66 "2007-04-28T07:15:28Z")
[QUOTE=John Corrado] Your actions are disgraceful, and I for one will not stand for it. This is my last post to the Dope. [/QUOTE] **John** - please don’t leave. Please. Please dudes, also consider **samclem** ’s long history of excellent service to the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/67 "2007-04-28T09:20:39Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Was it the surreally satiricial thread about Rush Limbaugh? [/QUOTE] No. That was the one I linked to, and it turned out I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/68 "2007-04-28T09:22:47Z")
[QUOTE=brownie55] Is there no depth to which you will not stoop in order to make it about you? [/QUOTE] Oh lord, no. In fact, I’ll get people to come in and quote my entire post, mention me in particular, and dredge up shit from the past. I’m not paying you, though. We never came to terms. Say… you’re not that FEMA guy, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/69 "2007-04-28T10:10:07Z")
From the Debating debating! thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=1778054&postcount=149](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=1778054&postcount=149) [QUOTE=Scylla] My intention at the start of this thing was to make a large blunder, and retract it graciously when it was pointed out. . . . . The funny thing is, that the blunder I purposefully made went completely unnoticed (I’m not about to point it out now, but you can probably find it,) [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=96214&page=4&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=96214&page=4&pp=50) [QUOTE=Scylla] My intent though was to plant and concede a factually innacurate point [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=1778330&postcount=158](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=1778330&postcount=158) [QUOTE=Scylla] I’ve also argued a stance I didn’t necessarily beleive in in order to make a point or show a flaw in an opponent’s stance. [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=1778588&postcount=164](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=1778588&postcount=164) [QUOTE=Scylla] It is possible that the tactic I am admittedly guilty-by-intent of using is not fundamentally honest. [/QUOTE] That’s trolling. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/70 "2007-04-28T10:44:26Z")
Mmm. But in a thread about debating debating, is it trolling, or tactics? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/71 "2007-04-28T11:08:50Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Mmm. But in a thread about debating debating, is it trolling, or tactics? [/QUOTE] Trolling as tactic is still trollling, although obviously not anywhere near as offensive as seriously proposing total war against a country that was invaded and occupied for no good reason. It does, however, raise the question of whether Scylla was inhuman enough to seriously propose total war, or just yanking chains with hyperbole to bring attention to the level of support necessary to resolve the conflict. The bottom line is that Scylla has admitted to deliberately posting misleading informtation in hopes of obtaining a desired effect, and now is demanding an apology for being accused of admitting that he sometimes trolls the board. Typical weaselling and whining by Scylla. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/72 "2007-04-28T11:51:47Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] That’s trolling. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but it’s not. Trolling is commonly defined as making comments intended to provoke an angry response. "My intention at the start of this thing was to make a large blunder, and retract it graciously when it was pointed out. " “My intent though was to plant and concede a factually innacurate point” “I’ve also argued a stance I didn’t necessarily beleive in in order to make a point or show a flaw in an opponent’s stance.” “It is possible that the tactic I am admittedly guilty-by-intent of using is not fundamentally honest.” These are just debating tactics. Hell, by your definition, Plato was a troll - it’s thought that he fabricated the legend of Atlantis just for a philosophical debating tactic. Should be have been banned from the Academy? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/73 "2007-04-28T12:54:06Z")
I would have thought the general flow of events was clear. **Scylla** dared to question one of the sacred cows of the SDMB (that the war in Iraq is un-winnable). Thus (of course) the usual Pitting, based mostly on the false accusation that **Scylla** was advocating genocide. **samclem** , being driven mad by the key word in the title of the Pitting, decided that **Scylla** was trolling and wanted to begin advocating among the mods for his suspension or banning. So he ( **samclem** ) went off to search for what he thought would be a previous instance of trolling. He found none, and thus popped back into the Pitting thread to try to enlist the help of the Usual Suspects in digging up something he could use to justify a push to ban **Scylla**. As has been pointed out, if this had been handled via private e-mail, it could have been a different matter. But it wasn’t - a moderator has made a public accusation of trolling against a poster. Can’t unring that bell. Lessons to be learned from all this -[ul][li]Dissent from the groupthink of “the Iraqi war is lost” is advocating genocide[_]Advocating genocide in the Iraqi war is a dreadful offense unless it is against American service men and women.[_]Knowingly posting false information is an offense, unless it is from **Der Trihs** or another of the Usual Suspects.[_]Arguments which dissent from the received wisdom of Democratic talking points must always be assumed to be in bad faith. [_]Arguments which the moderators don’t like are not bannable offenses, but we’re working on it.[/ul][/li] All this will be blandly denied, and the thread locked. **John Carrodo** , I hope very much that you reconsider. I cannot predict, however, that anything will change. What **manhattan** mentioned when he left is even more true now. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/74 "2007-04-28T12:54:46Z")
Agreed. These are unseemly tactics, dishonest tactics, to be sure. But they are not trolling as such. I happen to think that dishonest tactics are Pit-worthy, hence the Pitting of **Scylla** entirely justified. When **Samclem** asked for trolling evidence, he left an unfortunate impression in the mind of some here, but directly and unequivocally repudiated any suggestion that he was acting as a mod, seeking evidence towards a contemplated banning. I believe him, hence **Scylla** has no case. I would prefer that a mod be just a tad more circumspect. But the only real damage comes from pointing out what is public knowledge, and the damage is to **Scylla’s** reputation. About which, the less said the better. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/75 "2007-04-28T13:05:52Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Got it in one, **Autolycus**. And that was the _blush_ that I was hoping might taste like White Zinfndel. I still have a bottle of something called Foggy Bay American White Table Wine (although it’s really kind of orange) to get through, and I’m frightened. **'luci** , I’m gonna be a party pooper, and let the cat out of the bag: **\<3** is a sideways heart in leetspeak. and **1nt0rn3tz0rz upbringing \>\_\<** means “internet [zorz] upbringing 🆒” [/QUOTE] No, “| \<3” is what we call a mathematical equation that means “the number one is less than the number three”. Obviously, \*\*Autolycus \*\* was bragging about his mad math skillz. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/76 "2007-04-28T13:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat] Sorry, but it’s not. Trolling is commonly defined as making comments intended to provoke an angry response. [/QUOTE] I’ll second this. In order for it to be trolling, the intent has to be to get a rise out of people (the SDMB rules say trolling is “purposely inflammatory remarks”. That isn’t what **Scylla** admits to doing in that post (not that I’m sure holding a false position to prove a point is such a great idea either, but It’s not trolling). **Sam** was incorrect in his characterization of what **Scylla** said and should appologize. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/77 "2007-04-28T13:52:34Z")
Most of your argument here is stupid and repulsive, but standard **Shodan** crapola, not worthy of note. But this! [QUOTE=Shodan] [ul][li]…Advocating genocide in the Iraqi war is a dreadful offense unless it is against American service men and women…[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] is putrid, foul, and disgusting. A wriggling maggot wouldn’t post something like that. Your suggestion that those who disagree with you dearly crave harm and death for our own is beneath the contempt of a vulture. Have you no sense of decency? None? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/78 "2007-04-28T13:59:54Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] [ul] [li]Arguments which the moderators don’t like are not bannable offenses, but we’re working on it.[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] Fuck off, shithead. (Bland enough for you?) ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/79 "2007-04-28T13:59:55Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Have you no sense of decency? None? [/QUOTE] No more than Rudy Giuliani has. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/80 "2007-04-28T14:06:30Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Your suggestion that those who disagree with you dearly crave harm and death for our own is beneath the contempt of a vulture. [/QUOTE] Out of some (probably misguided) sense of fairness, **Der Trihs** has indeed done such. He has also been Pitted for it, just as **Scylla** was. But **Shodan** has never let that sort of reality interfere with his hallucinatiouns. I suspect that he orgasms each time he types “the usual suspects”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=5)