# Complaint against samclem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909 "2007-04-27T23:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/141 "2007-04-29T21:49:54Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Well, God knows nothing ever happened that didn’t happen on Google. Maybe you should begin documenting “recreational outrage” — just in case someone will care about your research four years after the fact. [/QUOTE] If isn’t four years for me, it’s only 27 days. That post was a very long way of calling CITE, but let’s not hi-jack this thread anymore! We can continue over in the original thread[\*\*\*\*\*](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=414492). My problem, here, was this, [QUOTE=Liberal] … Did you know President Bush recently was awarded the Purple Heart for taking hurtful criticism? … [/quote] which is only possible if you don’t open the thread and read the fucking OP, [QUOTE=Liberal] … If that conjures up images in your mind of a public military ceremony … [/quote] which is only possible if you don’t open the thread and read the fucking OP, [QUOTE=Liberal] … in which Bush was pinned with a medal by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs … [/quote] which is only possible if you don’t open the thread and read the fucking OP, [QUOTE=Liberal] … you’ve been had. … [/quote] which is only possible if you don’t open the thread and read the fucking OP, [QUOTE=Liberal] … It is a lie, deliberately worded in a way that revises what actually happened. … [/quote] so lets see if we can fix that for you, **I pit Bush for accepting [del]the[/del] a Purple Heart**, oh that **Martin Hyde** and his clever use of the word the. What’s your evidence that **Martin Hyde** deliberately worded the title of the thread to confuse you? 'Cause I didn’t see anybody in that thread who was had, and thought Bush was actually getting a “real” Purple Heart from the only folks allowed to give them out. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/142 "2007-04-29T21:54:46Z")
**Scylla** You’re a very proud individual. I meant nothing personal. My apology WAS sincere. If you can’t take my apology at face value, then so be it. I meant it that way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/143 "2007-04-29T22:05:51Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] …he should be removed as a moderator of this board. He’s simply demonstrated that his judgement isn’t up to the task. I ask that that be done… [/QUOTE] You do for \*chutzpah \* what Gibralter does for rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/144 "2007-04-29T22:29:58Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] One of the moderators responds with a two-line post, and one of the lines is “fuck you, shithead”. [/QUOTE] You stated that moderators are working on banning those with divergent views. By doing so, you implied that we are incapable or undesirous of keeping our personal and moderatorial views separate. How many times have you been warned? Have you ever been suspended or banned? My comment stands. > [@Scylla](#): > > Shodan is right. He is treated differently by the moderators mainly because of his political stripe. … Frank … will cut at him openly for relatively minor things while you seldom will conflict with or call names to some of the really openly hostile and insenstate types of your own political stripe. How is he treated differently? How many times has he been warned? Has he ever been suspended or banned? I cut at him for personal reasons. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/145 "2007-04-29T22:41:02Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Read my last fifty posts, in this thread and elsewhere. How many of them are less than two lines? [/quote] They do indeed all contain “Regards” and “Shodan”, that’s true. Two lines. Got us there. If the moderators really were trying to silence self-styled “conservatives” here, wouldn’t you of all people be in Coventry already? What do you think they’re “working on”, anyway - how to find the right box to click on the member list, maybe? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/146 "2007-04-29T22:48:01Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] I took one for the team. [/QUOTE] Mighty wingman … ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/147 "2007-04-29T22:51:01Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] **Shodan** is right. He is treated differently by the moderators mainly because of his political stripe. You, or **Frank** or **tomndeb** will cut at him openly for relatively minor things while you seldom will conflict with or call names to some of the really openly hostile and insenstate types of your own political stripe. No matter how much you would like to pretend that their is a time when you are posting as poster and a time when you are posting as a moderator, and that these two are distinct, it is simply not so. There is overlap. If one is openly hostile to Shodan as a poster and then you have to chastise him as a moderator he and others may legitimately question how much of an overlap there is. [/QUOTE] No. **Shodan** is lying and your statement is, to quote **TVeblen** , bullshit. There is a small contingent of rabidly anti-Bush posters and a smaller contingent of rabidly pro-Bush posters who wander through **GD** making idiotic claims about “bushiviks” or “the usual suspects.” Neither gets to call the other names. Each gets challenged on their more outrageous claims. The only time I interact with **Shodan** , at all, is when he makes one of his broad-brush insupportable claims (generally about the SDMB or the staff). In **GD** I point out his egregious errors and ignore his smaller claims. In the **Pit** I point out his errors and note that he is simply inventing things. I have never gone after **Shodan** with a personal attack, (possibly with a smart-assed response, but not with any full-blown attack), and have even allowed a few of his minor falsehoods to get past me in **GD** if it did not seem as though the thread could support one more corrective hijack. I certainly do not treat **Shodan** differently that I treat **ElvisL1ves** or **elucidator** or any of several other posters on the Left. Do you have anything resembling a citation otherwise? Similarly, I do not recall having any antagonistic personal encounters with **Starving Artist** or **furt** or **xtisme** or **Airman Doors USAF** or you or several other posters who are probably further to the Right than I am. If the posters with whom I have had “issues” all lined up on one side or another of some political line, I could see your claim. Since that is not a true observation, I see no reason to accept a corollary that cannot be true without the initial premise. To the extent (not much) that I treat **Shodan** any differently than any other posters, it is a direct result of his behavior, not his beliefs. If someone insults **Shodan** in **GD** , I will admonish that poster just as I would admonish him or her for insulting **Tamerlane** or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/148 "2007-04-29T22:52:17Z")
**Scylla** ’s rebirth as champion of fairness and decorum on this board reminds me a lot of Larry Flynt’s reimagining as selfless First Amendment crusader— but much less convincing, and he’s the only one wanking to it. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/149 "2007-04-29T22:55:13Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] If the moderators really were trying to silence self-styled “conservatives” here, wouldn’t you of all people be in Coventry already? What do you think they’re “working on”, anyway - how to find the right box to click on the member list, maybe? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Perhaps some of the positions have been overstated, but this board is absolutely hostile to conservatives, and the mods contribute to that atmosphere. Saying, “But my mod hat was off!” doesn’t change that. It’s a strange situation, I suppose. Mods work gratis, I believe, so we by definition have mods who like the place, who are willing to hang around, despite the fact that they have no reason to do so other than what the rest of us have–the ability to mix it up, to react, to post when the spirit moves them. But, as has been pointed out, what other business model permits management to mix it up with the clientele, to post things that can be perceived as hostile? And if we prohibit such interaction, who would blame the mod who would say, screw it, why should I hang around here? I don’t know what the answer is… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/150 "2007-04-29T22:56:55Z")
To the contrary, the mods walk on eggshells around **Scylla** , and cut him far more slack than he deserves. [Scylla has been warned for deliberately misquoting me.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6540484&postcount=170) But he threw such a hissy fit, the mods reversed their call, even though his only defense for attributing to me words I never said, was " I misremembered it". ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/151 "2007-04-29T23:00:14Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] The only time I interact with **Shodan** , at all, is when he makes one of his broad-brush insupportable claims (generally about the SDMB or the staff). In **GD** I point out his egregious errors and ignore his smaller claims. In the **Pit** I point out his errors and note that he is simply inventing things. I have never gone after **Shodan** with a personal attack, (possibly with a smart-assed response, but not with any full-blown attack), and have even allowed a few of his minor falsehoods to get past me in **GD** if it did not seem as though the thread could support one more corrective hijack. I certainly do not treat **Shodan** differently that I treat **ElvisL1ves** or **elucidator** or any of several other posters on the Left. Do you have anything resembling a citation otherwise? [/QUOTE] No, I don’t. But, Tom, anecdotal though my evidence is, you have an undeniable bias in your exchanges, and the “Mod” under your name carries a certain weight. Just my opinion. And I say that as someone who respects your contribution here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/152 "2007-04-29T23:09:18Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] Perhaps some of the positions have been overstated, but this board is absolutely hostile to conservatives [/quote] More precisely, this board is absolutely hostile to _bullshit_. We happen to be in a period of history when we’ve been getting such a massive load of it from a government that styles itself “conservative” that it’s easy for conservatives to feel they’re being put upon for their ideology, or even personally, rather than their command of facts and reason. Quite a few can no longer make themselves come to the defense of the intellectually and morally indefensible, as you might have noticed. > [@](#): > > But, as has been pointed out, what other business model permits management to mix it up with the clientele, to post things that can be perceived as hostile? How about that the “perception” of hostility, from whatever source, is for the perceiver to grow up and fuckin’ \*deal \* with? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/153 "2007-04-29T23:12:40Z")
Clearly, somebody needs a hug! **Elvish** , get on that, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/154 "2007-04-29T23:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] More precisely, this board is absolutely hostile to _bullshit_. We happen to be in a period of history when we’ve been getting such a massive load of it from a government that styles itself “conservative” that it’s easy for conservatives to feel they’re being put upon for their ideology, or even personally, rather than their command of facts and reason. Quite a few can no longer make themselves come to the defense of the intellectually and morally indefensible, as you might have noticed. [/quote] So, the conservative position is, by definition, intellectually and morally indefensible, eh? You make my point. Honestly, it’s certainly a matter of opinion, but anyone who asserts that this board is not hostile to conservatives and accommodating to liberals is delusional, IMO. That may be fine by you. But more and more will leave, reducing this to a lib echo chamber. Is that what you want? > [@](#): > > How about that the “perception” of hostility, from whatever source, is for the perceiver to grow up and fuckin’ \*deal \* with? Right. Easy for someone on your side of the exchange to say. Very easy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/155 "2007-04-29T23:16:27Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] No, I don’t. But, Tom, anecdotal though my evidence is, you have an undeniable bias in your exchanges, and the “Mod” under your name carries a certain weight. Just my opinion. And I say that as someone who respects your contribution here. [/QUOTE] “Bias” in my “exchanges.” Does that translate into English as “holds a point of view”? I absolutely do have a perspective in the political, theological, philosophical, literary, etc. realms and I express those views. On the other hand, I have also defended Bush from egregious nonsense and defended both atheistic and conservative religious expressions. The issue is whether I have personally attacked a poster for simply holding a view different than my own. The more important issue is whether I have used my Mod powers to attack a poster whose views differed from (or even whose personality clashed with) mine. The majority of the criticisms hurled at me the last couple of times I was **Pit** ted were that I was being “too fair” to disruptive elements when my only statement was that I would prefer to follow the rules regarding handing out sanctions. In one recent instance, I actually admonished a poster for breaking the rules of **GD** when defending me against a rather scurrilous attack. I make no claim to perfection–I am sure I have messed up from time to time, but I am going to have to see evidence that I have actually engaged in personal vendettas or given any poster a reson to fear my actions as a Mod. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/156 "2007-04-29T23:17:03Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Clearly, somebody needs a hug! **Elvish** , get on that, OK? [/QUOTE] Just more evidence. We just need a hug, huh? Okee-dokee. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/157 "2007-04-29T23:19:43Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] “Bias” in my “exchanges.” Does that translate into English as “holds a point of view”? [/quote] Yes. > [@](#): > > I absolutely do have a perspective in the political, theological, philosophical, literary, etc. realms and I express those views. Believe me, that perspective is abundantly clear. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, I have also defended Bush from egregious nonsense and defended both atheistic and conservative religious expressions. The issue is whether I have personally attacked a poster for simply holding a view different than my own. The more important issue is whether I have used my Mod powers to attack a poster whose views differed from (or even whose personality clashed with) mine. The majority of the criticisms hurled at me the last couple of times I was **Pit** ted were that I was being “too fair” to disruptive elements when my only statement was that I would prefer to follow the rules regarding handing out sanctions. In one recent instance, I actually admonished a poster for breaking the rules of **GD** when defending me against a rather scurrilous attack. > > I make no claim to perfection–I am sure I have messed up from time to time, but I am going to have to see evidence that I have actually engaged in personal vendettas or given any poster a reson to fear my actions as a Mod. Tom, I hope my post reflected the fact that I sympathize with the inherent conflict in the position. I do. But that conflict exists nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/158 "2007-04-29T23:20:57Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] Honestly, it’s certainly a matter of opinion, but anyone who asserts that this board is not hostile to conservatives and accommodating to liberals is delusional, IMO. [/QUOTE] [Well, perhaps.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8139057#post8139057) ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/159 "2007-04-29T23:21:13Z")
I think some _conservatives_ should sign up as Mods asap; if they’re a dying breed. True change can only come from inside the system. Fight the power! Or would ‘Fight the Liberals!’ be more appropriate? Fight the Arabs? Fight the Mods? I’m really not sure who they’re angry with anymore. But they do seem angry, ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909/160 "2007-04-29T23:25:36Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] Tom, I hope my post reflected the fact that I sympathize with the inherent conflict in the position. I do. But that conflict exists nonetheless. [/QUOTE] I am afraid I do not see the conflict. If the conflict is that posters who disagree with me on philosophical points are cowed into quiet by my position, I would suggest that they review any number of hostile threads in which I have engaged, note that my opponents are not subdued (on the rare occasions when they concede) with anything more than facts and logic, and grow a pair. If the conflict is that I actually use my mad Mod powers to suppress anyone, I want to see evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complaint-against-samclem/401909.md?page=9)